Sleeping Bag and Space Blanket

[AnaMaria]

I'll be camping this weekend at WELOT training (OWL to some of you) in temperatures in the 40's. I have an inadequate sleeping bag - no idea of the rating, but nothing great. I'll be using a fleece bag inside that. I'll also have a cot and a cheap foam pad from Wal-Mart. I slept with this gear (minus the foam pad) about a month ago in similar temperatures and my back was cold all night. Not dangerously cole, just annoying. I'm thinking of adding an emergency blanket in there somewhere underneath, maybe between the fleece bag and other bag. Is this going to make any noticeable difference?

 

I realize the ideal solution is another bag, but for this discussion, assume the above equipment is what I'll have.

[artjrk]

The foam pad should make all difference you need. The space blanket will not.

 

Sleeping on a cot is the same as a hammock (which I like to do) On the colder evenings it helps to have the foam pad under you just as if you were directly on the ground.

[shortridge]

Insulation from the ground is the important thing. The space blanket may help you retain some body heat if you wrap it around yourself and then slide into the sleeping bag, but IMHO, any benefit will be offset by hearing the @#$%!! crinkly sound every time you move or stretch.

 

Also wear a hat to bed - that'll definitely help keep you toasty.

[Stosh]

GET OFF THE COT! The air constantly recirculates cold under the cot. Remember the principles of geothermals! If you sleep on a block of ice, the temperature of ice is 32 degrees. The air under a cot can get a lot colder than that and constantly recirculate throughout the night! Vapor barrier on the ground, foam pad, another insulation pad is ok, like a folded wool blanket, the bag with another wood blanket wrapped around you inside the bag. Wear wool underwear to bed, wool socks and wool hat which are all fresh and dry, don't wear the sweaty ones you had on all day. The ground may be harder, but it's warmer.

 

Remember the construction of a sleeping bag is not condusive to cold weather. It uses loft to create insulation. If you put your wool blanket over the top, if it doesn't slide off in the middle of the night, it will compress the bag's loft. Wrap yourself up and slide in. Underneath, your body weight will compress 6" of great loft down to a quarter inch of minimal effectiveness. I've slept on snow/ice with this set up and been fine. I've tried for a little comfort on a cot and it has never worked as well. If you absolutely need a cot, get one of those with 2-3" legs and make sure the blanket drops down all the way around or pack with leaves/straw to reduce air circulation under the cot.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[mbrownkc7]

I froze my tail off each winter until I ditched by air mattress and bought a mat. I bought a Thermarest and have been sleeping better ever since. Everyone here gives great advise with the socks, hat, and dry clothes.

 

My only problem is my nose always gets cold and I don't like dropping all way into my bag. I need to buy a cheap ski mask that covers my nose but has openings for my mouth and eyes and then I would be in hog heaven.

 

Another trick is to put the next days clothes in the bag with you. Makes getting dressed in the morning a little better.

 

Have a fun weekend.

[mmhardy]

Another trick is to throw 1-2 of those hand warmers or packs into the bottom of the bag. Ive totally dumped anything under me that holds or circulates air. Thus my Thermorest does not come out in the winter. I use a thick old 100% wool blanket (an old Hudson Bay) folded over several times for my pad. Im getting sleepy just thinking about it.

[ntrog8r]

You can also boil water before bed, put it in your nalgene. Wrap the nalgene in a t-shirt, putit in the foot of the bag about 15 minutes before you climb in. The fleece should help a lot, as will adding a skuill cap. Stay warm!

[John-in-KC]

Have specific night clothes, to include good woolen socks.

 

As others have said, a watch cap helps tremendously!

 

As far as pads, when I was a youngster in the Army we still used air mattresses. I always put an Army wool blanket between my sack and the matt; otherwise, the rubber catches your sweat.

[Ohio_Scouter]

Stosh is absolutely correct. Ditch the cot. IMHO, cots are only good for keeping you cool in the summertime. In colder temperatures, the air circulation around the cot will really cool you down quickly. All other suggestions are right on--especially about wearing a woolen ski-mask type head cover since the vast majority of your body heat escapes from your head and extremities.

 

Happy Camping!

[kenk]

Some thoughts to add ...

 

Don't put a space blanket or survival blanket OVER your sleeping bag. They are plastic bags and will trap moisture (some use "vapor barriers", but that is a special thing beyond Scouts).

 

Go to your local Home Depot or similar, buy a sheet of that pink rigid foam insulation, cut it to a length & width that suites you and your tent (keep it big!!), then cut that into three or four pieces with VERY straight lines that will allow you to fold the pad to a transportable size. Then use duct tape to tape those three or four pieces back together ... make sure you put tape on opposite sides at every other seam, so you can fold it like an accordion - or a Z for 3 pieces or a W for four pieces.

 

Put the rigid foam pad down first, then a soft foam (Thermarest!!) pad on that for comfort, then the sleeping bag. Lately I've just been opening my mummy bag and using as a quilt with my feet stuffed in the end. It feels less constricting for me. The foam pads get nice and warm pretty quick.

 

Don't put your face/breath inside the bag. It will accumulate moisture.

 

Strip off all of the day's moist clothing. Sleep with dry cloths or very few cloths.

 

Try to make sure your feet are nice and dry before going to bed. Sometimes I'll take my shoes off and warm them near the fire to make darn sure they are dry. Wearing synthetic or wool socks will help a lot. Cold feet is my biggest problem. I'll try the hot water bottle next time - great idea and cheaper (?) than hand warmer packs.

 

Wear a loose-fitting knit cap. If its real cold I'll wear a balaclava (sp?) to keep my neck warm too - it also is less apt to fall off during the night.

 

If your bag is still cold, bring extra blankets to put over the top ... just like you might at home. With the rigid foam pad under you there is no need to put blankets underneath you - unless a fleece blanket just feels better to you than the pad itself.

 

Open the tent vents big time so you don't get too much condensation. All the tent really needs to do is to act as a wind-break, keep out bugs if any, and provide some privacy if needed.

[boomerscout]

I am wondering if a restless sleeper might kick open the nalgene botle sometime during the night -- especially if we thrifty are using a nalgene TYPE bottle? Has anyone tried warming some rocks and putting those in the bag (wrapped up in cloth of course)?

 

Even though it's cold, if the camp is stationary you might consider airing out the bag every mid-day.

[ntrog8r]

I've never heard of anyone "kicking open" their nalgene in the night, but then I've never seen a "nalgene-type" bottle used for this either. Personally, I've never needed to leave the bottle in, but my wife does.

 

As for rocks, you'd have to be very careful about overheating them and melting the material of your synthetic bag. They'd have to be wrapped pretty well to keep dirt and grime out, too.

 

Mentioning my wife reminds me of another issue I've seen - short people in tall bags. This applies to younger Scouts and shorter adults, of course. If you are not as long as your bag, there will be a lot of cold air in the foot of the bag. Moving during the night or extending your legs will be like shoving your feet into cold water, waking you up and leaving you very tired the next morning. For those having this problem just shove a fleece or wool blanket, etc (not the heavy winter coat they've been wearing all day) into the foot of the bag to take up the extra space.

[Trevorum]

In general, new scouts will readily listen to my advice on gear and will equip themselves better next time. (Stosh is right - no cots in winter!) However, one of the toughest lessons to get across is the importance of changing out of the days clothes - including underwear. When the temperature inside their tent is already frosty, it seems counter intuitive to them to strip down and get even colder. Some kids will just skip that step, thinking it won't really make a big difference. But, kids will listen to the older, experienced scouts on this issue

[eghiglie]

For warm/hot weather the cot is a great way to go with a pad or thin air mattress for comfort.

 

For cool/cold the cot is much worse as Stosh says. The opening under the cot is the culprit and an air mattress on the ground is not much better.

 

I like to sleep in comfort given that I'm in my late 50's.

 

My winter sleep gear is a dreamtime xl pad, and a sleeping bag of either -15 degree or 20 degrees and a wool blanket.

 

Based on what was stated two wool blankets, one under the bag and one over should be better along with a watch cap.

 

An ASM in my troop always sleeps on a cot with a backboard, He has a blanket that covers all the airspace and it helps a lot.

 

Good luck and let me know what you decide to do and how it works.

[JoeBob]

If you're not using a mummy bag, you can mimic the air seal by wearing a wool sweater to sleep. Pull your arms out of the sleeves, and the bunched up material around your neck will keep cold drafts from infiltrating down on your shoulders and lower.