OKPIK Training/Sleeping bag recommendation

[RandyPrice]

I am going to take the OKPIK training and was wondering if any of you have taken it and what sleeping bag you would recommend. Thanks in advance. Randy

[Eagle92]

I got a Eureka Casper long version found at the two sites below and love it. rated to 15 degrees, packs very light, and I sued it in 39 degree weather this weekend. NO PROBLEMS!

 

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___45337

 

http://www.toothoftimetraders.com/philmont/product.asp?s_id=0&prod_name=Casper+15%B0+Sleeping+Bag+by+Eureka&pf_id=PAAAIAJOOJNLNHEB&dept_id=6733

 

 

[moxieman]

Randy, you might want to contact those putting on the OKPIK training. Up here in the Maine Wilderness, equipment is provided under the assumption that those attending either don't have the equipment or don't know which equipment to bring. All you bring is your body and clothing--they'll even supply some of that (outer layers) up here.

 

Also, what would be an appropriate sleeping bag for OKPIK training in Maine will not be the same as in Florida or Montana or Alaska.

 

My winter mummy-style bag is rated only to 20F. I have made a fleece liner for it that brings it down another 10 degrees or so. That's all I've ever used. Then again I'm a "whoos" and you won't find me in the sort of weather they camp out in Minnesota or Montana in the -20F range. Mostly 'cause I can't afford to buy the proper gear to overnight in such conditions.

[ScoutOne]

Randy,

 

If you are participating in 'the' Okpik at Northern Tier you should be fine with a three season sleeping bag. They have supplemental liners and sleeping bags you can place your sleeping bag within.

 

The available supplemental equipment depends on the program. I would recommend inquiring before spending a lot of money on a new sleeping bag, boots, or gloves, etc.

 

 

[fleetfootedfox]

I haven't had this training, but I've slept in cold weather, and I would say definitely get a zero degree (or lower) mummy bag. I always want a bag rated 20 degrees below what the temperature will be. I have slept in 20 degree weather fairly comfortably in a zero degree bag. If you are big like me you also want to pay attention to the dimensions of the bag. Too small and you will be uncomfortable.

 

There are some non-mummy bags that might be okay too. You may have some reason that a mummy bag would be uncomfortable for you. I see Dick's Sporting Goods has the Wenzel Tundra Sleeping Bag rated for -10. However, I'm guessing this is probably a very bulky bag. That is one of the advantages of the mummy bags. They are less bulky for the same comfort level.

 

I hope I'm not just stating the obvious with all this advice. Not sure what you were looking for exactly. I do know good sleeping bags can get very expensive. If you want one that's both warm in cold weather and also very light, you will pay more money.

[raisinemright]

I've got a 15 degree rated Eureka bag that is horrible. Last weekend we had a campout that got to about 26-28F. Even though I had mil-spec polypro longjohn's a knit cap and down booties, I was still uncomfortably cold. Too much air gets in at the bottom of the zipper. I had a similar experience at -5 F last year but expected it that time.

 

My son has a 0F degree rated bag from Alps Mountaineering that he absolutely loves. Alps has a program called Scout Direct. 45% off retail for scouts and a special program for leaders that has some limited deals at 65% off retail. They make pretty good stuff. We've changed out most of our troop tents to Alps too.

 

I'll probably be buying one soon.

[Mooseman]

I love my -40 degree bag, works great on the really cold nights.

http://www.thenorthface.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=70184&storeId=207&catalogId=10201&langId=-1&from=subCat&parent_category_rn=11749&variationId=7D8

 

If you are starting out though I would suggest that you combined two bags, it is cheaper and easier. Maybe a 20 degree and a zero degree... or what ever you might have.

[RandyPrice]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I think that you are right and I should wait till I attend the class and see what they recommend. I live in N. IL and it can get pretty cold here. I camped at BSA Camp Lowden last weekend and the temp's were in the upper 20's low 30's and got cold with my current equipment. However, I didn't really dress correctly at bedtime. Thanks again, Randy (a good ole beaver too).

[dg98adams]

I have not been to OKPIK training yet (might have some boys interested this winter), but a standard 3 season bag, a wool blanket (or 2), a layer of cardboard, and a closed foam pad (and a hat for your head) is usually more than enough for Scout-level winter camping in snow.

 

It's all about layers of insulation & not keeping moisture (evap/sweat/condensation) against the skin to a minimum.

 

The extra stuff comes in when it's wet and snowy or really windy.

 

You need to stay dry and out of the wind, which makes sense no matter what kind of camping you do.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Stosh]

There's a lot of variables out there that make a recommendation impossible. I am 59 years old and find that when the temps drop into the 20's my zero bag isn't enough so it is supplemented with a couple of wool blankets. I always sleep in poly-lined wool underwear and have a wool stocking cap on as well. Wrap in the wool blanket BEFORE getting into the bag so it doesn't slide off in the middle of the night. Be sure to have a good closed-foam pad underneath along with a vapor barrier of some sort (i.e. plastic sheet)

 

Last time I went in severe conditions I had wool underwear (including socks); wrapped in a wool blanket; used a wool cap; did the pad/sheet thingy and borrowed a -20 bag. It was great and the temperature dropped to zero. If you're from Hawaii, these precautions may not work for you, but if you're from WI or MN, you might get away with it having been acclimated to the weather before you leave.

 

Stosh

[CalicoPenn]

First, don't just run out and buy a new sleeping bag just for cold weather camping - unless you plan on camping regularly in cold weather. On the other hand, if you're getting cold drafts though the zippers on the bag you're currently using, you might want to get a new sleeping bag anyway - a good "three season" bag will be fine for most camping trips - look for a sleeping bag that "hides" the zipper behind a flap that runds the length of the zipper (Think about the zipper hidden behind the flap on your blue jeans as the concept).

 

Second, ignore all the 20 below, 10 below, 0 below, 10 above, etc. ratings except as very general guidelines. There are no industry wide standards in the United States for what that means. In general, in the US, manufacturers often fudge these numbers up to 20 degrees either way, so a manufacturer might rate a bag at 10 below but it's only good to 10 above, or might rate it at 10 below and its really good to 30 below. Because of this, comparing bags rated at 10 below is an exercise in comparing apples and oranges. You can look at 5 different bags rated at 10 below and have a range from 10 above to 30 below. You're still better off with a "three season" bag that you know and like.

 

What you really want is not a specific sleeping bag, but a sleeping system - and that's a system that works best for you. Starting from the ground up, you want either a closed cell pad (which isn't always very comfortable on it's own, especially for adults), a closed cell pad AND an open cell pad (for better comfort), or a Thermarest-type insulated self-inflating pad (which can also be used with a closed cell pad underneath). Never use just an open cell pad. The pads aren't just for comfort, they're an insulation barrier between you and the cold ground. An open cell pad alone doesn't insulate as well - it can actually help move the cold from the ground to you. An aside - if your sleeping on frozen bare ground, consider doubling the insulation - 2 closed cell pads, or the closed cell pad and the insulated self-inflating. Sleeping on a good layer of snow, you can usually skip the double pad (except for the open/closed cell double pads - never skip that). Snow on the ground is as much air as it is ice crystals - and snow, because of all the air spaces in it, is a fairly good insulator itself - that's why Quinzhee's (snow huts) work so well.

 

The next part of your sleeping system is your bag - starting with the three season as a base, add a sleeping bag liner inside - sleeping bag companies often make fleece sleeping bag liners for use in cooler weather (or for warmer weather when a sleeping bag is too hot but you still need something for a bit of warmth at night). You can use a wool blanket as a liner, or an old army sleeping bag liner which is a synthetic quilt. Many also make outer bags - usually a thin bag with a hood and tougher exterior material (something like a 60/40 denier cloth - for better "wind" resistance) that can be used. This outer bag may contain a layer of it's own insulation, or may just be a bag. You may even find a full sleeping bag system that you might like.

 

Or you may be like me - fleece or flannel sheet on my sleeping pads, a thin fleece blanket, a wool blanket, and an unzipped sleeping bag for the top layers (with perhaps an extra blanket available if I need it), and some good pillows with flannel pillow cases - and I'll sleep all night. For me, at least, if my head isn't comfortable on a good pillow (or three), I never get a good nights sleep. This is what I use to sleep with in Northern Illinois, and Wisconsin, and what I slept with when I taught Okpik at Maine National High Adventure Base Howland.

[RandyPrice]

Thanks CalicoPenn and all others for the comments. I REALLY do appreciate them. Regards, Randy Price (a good ole beaver too)

[CalicoPenn]

Just to clarify something, which I had meant to do in my response - in case anyone is puzzling over why I suggested a double pad on bare frozen ground in the "why should that matter" sense. With bare frozen ground, depending on where you live, the ground will be frozen to a depth up to 24 inches. In Northern Illinois, the typical depth of a freeze is 18 inches. That is essentially an ice block 1 1/2 feet deep - and sleeping on ice saps more warmth than sleeping on snow.

[BrentAllen]

I haven't been to Okpik yet, but I believe they ask you to just bring your standard cold weather gear, and they provide the extreme cold weather equipment, including overbags (your sleeping bag goes inside) and down parkas, etc. They realize Scouts from Georgia aren't going to go out and buy a bunch of extreme cold weather gear that we will only use a couple of times, so they provide it.

I just checked the recommended equipment list, and they say you can bring you summer or three season bag to go in their extreme cold weather bag. See page 2 of the Participant Handbook.

http://www.ntier.org/Resources/Brochures/Okpik%20Particpant%20Handbook.pdf

 

[Eamonn]

I hate the cold!!

I hate being cold!!

I say that I'm frugal, OJ says I'm cheap.

Being as I don't like the cold, I try to avoid camping when it's cold.

For many years I had a down filled bag that wasn't bad, but it started to not be as warm as it once was? That or old age has got me!

I have about half a dozen bags, some are better than others.

Then one I tend to use the most is my Cats Meow. It wasn't the cheapest or the most expensive bag. But it seems to do the job.

Have had a few problems at night with the zipper.

But after some very un-scout like words it seems to get the message.

I always use a Therm-a-Rest pad. (Bought the chair kit and only used it twice!)

Have to admit that I love camping stores and am a sucker for things that are on sale.

Ea.