Boards of Review and SM Conferences

[Bob White]

this is an offshoot from a disussion in uniforms. Several variations in how units do Boards and SM conferences has become evident. My personal concernis that advancement procedures are closely controlled by National BSA Policies. The primary rule to remember is that no unit or individual has the authority to add, or subtract from, any advancement policy, procedure or requirement. I'm not trying to promote 'Scouting According to Bob'. this is abbout scouting according to the BSA. Remember this is their game we are just the lucky ones who get to share it with the boys. If you were a baseballl coach would you even consider teaching your team a different set of rules?

 

For instance there have been alot of posting supporting the wearing of a full uniform to a Board of Review. The 'Advancement Policies and Procedures' manual is very spevific on this point. "a boy should be neat in appearance and wearing as correct a uniform as he can". No unit has the authority to change this rule.

 

Why would a Scoutmaster refuse a BOR? A scoutmaster role is to train junior leaders and know the needs and characteristics of each scout. Why not leave the BOR to the Advancement chair and the troop Committee members who comprise the board to administrate advancement policies?

 

Also, something that has been mentioned is BORs only happening with scouts ready to advance. The scout program is very specific on this point. Board of reviews should take place on a regular basis, not just when boys advance. You should also review boys who are not advancing to determine possible program weaknesses and to help motivate advancement.

 

Scoutmaster Conferences; Maybe I'm reading too much into some of the posts, but it seems to be the general belief that SM Conferences need be held at the end of the advancemnt process immediately before the BOR.

 

Actual it needs to be signed before the boy attends a Board for rank advancement but not if he is going simply to be reviewed. Also the conference can be done at any time during the advancement period.

 

Keep in mind the main purpose of the board is not to verify that the boy is ready to advence. That is the Board's job. The scoutmasters Conference is a device to force the SM to sit down face to face with every scout from time to time. Where did I get this from? I hate to drop names, but I was trained by Bill Hillcourt on this.

 

Again the purpose of this post is not to say "look how much I know", I guess I'm just frustrated by so many postings from obviously dedicated, well meaning scouters, who are not using the scouting program. i see alot of info being shared that is in direct conflict with the rules that we agreed to play by when we signed our membership application.

 

i'd like to see others who use these techniques respond so that the benefit of following the program could be understood and encouraged. As always scouters who want to do the right program are also encouraged to post questions on how to present a BSA scouting program.

 

Just for fun, here is some scout trivia.

 

1. How many ranks are there in Boy Scouts?

 

2. What is the only rank goal that is promoted by the BSA (promoted not celebrated)

 

[shemgren]

1.10:Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, Eagle, Eagle with Bronze Palm, Eagle with Gold Palm, Eagle with Silver Palm.

 

2. First Class

 

The biggest problem I see with Board of Reviews is the tendency to re-certify that Scout has earned the rank he is appearing to the board for, often having him repass the requirements. This not true for Eagle Boards, which in my Council is done on the District Level.

 

The board is to ensure that a quality program is being run in the troop, the Scout grasps the concepts in his advancement requirements, and that his experience in the troop is a good one.

 

The questions should focus on general issues of the rank, what the Scout liked and disliked of the process, how he feels about the troop, and such questions. He should not be re-tested on the requirements of the rank he is trying for. Questions about how he lives the Scout Law are always apporiate for any rank.

 

Scoutmaster Conferences are part of the advancement process, and can be done at anytime the Scoutmaster feels it is necessary, especially with a Scout that isn't advancing regularly. I recommend that the Scoutmaster sit down with each Scout at least once a year, twice is better, if possible.

 

Scott Hemgren

ADC

Central Minnesota Council

[jethehiker]

bob

Not a SM but good info . as fo ryour questions.

 

I believe there are 7

Scout

[Bob White]

Glad your enjoying jethehiker.

 

Is that your final answer? OOOH sorry, wrong on both. Would you like to buy a vowel?

[Rooster7]

Six.

 

"What is 1st Class?"

[Bob White]

A warm handshake (left hand of course) and a hardy slap on the back to Rooster7 for correctly answering today's trivia questions!

[andrews]

You can have more than just three palms, something I only learned recently. They are worn in combinations indicating how many merit badges you have earned over the 21 required for Eagle.

 

Each requires 3 months tenure, and I believe 3 months in a position of responsibility.

 

Brad

[Bob White]

You are right about more than 3 palms.

 

5 MB past Eagle--Bronze

10 MB Past Eagle--Gold

15MB past Eagle--Silver

(note, not in Olympic order)

20 MB--Bronze and Silver

25 MB--Gold and Silver

30 MB--Silver Gold Bronze

35 MB--Silver Silver Bronze

40 MB--The Dave Letterman Show

[FScouter]

BobWhite: Most of your points are well-taken, and I am in total agreement that we need to follow the official BSA policies and not bend them to suit our personal desires.

 

One case that you have mentioned repeatedly is that of what uniform is required for a Board of Review. The tone of your posts seems to indicate that it is the boy who may decide what uniform parts, if any, he will wear. And you have said that we are in violation of BSA policy to require otherwise.

 

You said the official BSA policy is that the boy must be "wearing as correct a uniform as he can". A policy like that is very general and not specific at all. One could interpret this to mean that a boy CAN go to the Scout Shop and he CAN buy the pants, and CAN buy the socks, and CAN buy all the rest of it too. One could argue that unless there is a good reason why the boy can NOT wear a correct uniform, then he needs to wear it. There may be lots of good reasons why a boy may not own all the correct uniform pieces. But when a boy has official uniform parts and chooses to not wear them, that would seem to be a violation of the policy.

 

Many of the BSA publications cover policies that are far from black & white and require some interpretation. My interpretation is that a troop rule that requires a boy to wear his uniform for a Board of Review is definitely not in violation of BSA policy. And reasonable interpretation of vague official policies does not constitute violation of those policies.

 

Perhaps you could help clarify how we Scouters can properly interpret vague official policies.

 

[Weekender]

"My interpretation is that a troop rule that requires a boy to wear his uniform for a Board of Review is definitely not in violation of BSA policy"

 

OK, before we get back to the same sticking point...the word uniform here means...Those parts of the official scout uniform that the troop requires for such occasions. If the troop only requires a shirt then the boy must be in his shirt to meet the board "for advancement purposes." If the troop requires all boys to have baseball cap to socks and has ensured that the boy in question does, in fact, own all required articles then if he neglects to wear a piece the Board can refuse to meet him "for advancement purposes."

 

Is this the way everyone understands this issue or am I off the mark?

[Bob White]

HMMMM, I just had a posting disappear. If this ends up on the thread twice I apologize.

 

I have not found a vague policy that I can recall (vague procedures maybe).

the Advancement Policy on Uniforming and advancement says "a boy should be neat in appearance and wear as complete and correct a uniform as he can".

 

The Board of Review (3 Committee Members)need to talk with the boy and see if he meets this requirement (it reflects on 'Show Scout Spirit').

 

the important point to make that it is not the decision of the Scoutmaster. If the SM is going to predetermine the findings of the Board then why have the board?

 

Determinations on advancement progression is not the Scoutmaster's responsibility.

 

As far as how this is implemented. i once had a scout appear at his board as he returned from a family funeral. He was neat and he wore as complete a uniform as he could(none). The events of the day and the family schedule were not in his control. HE did the best HE could. To refuse him a BOR would not be in the best interest of the boy or in keeping with the spririt and goals of the program.

[sctmom]

Once again quoting since I have the Scoutmaster's Handbook in front of me:

 

"A Scout taking part in a Scoutmaster conference will be able to determine if he is ready to go before the board of review."

 

Conference for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class

Congratulate the Scout on completing the advancement requirements, then explain what he can expect when he meets with the board of review.

 

[Bob White]

sctmom, Just so we agree we are on the same page (sorry about the pun)

 

it says "the scout will be able to ddetermine if he is ready" not the scoutmaster determines if he is ready!

 

A much more positive approach than the SM refusing to let him attend the BOR!

[Rooster7]

Bob White,

 

I submit there is some gray area here, and in some other policies. You seem pretty convinced that the phrase "wear as complete and correct a uniform as he can" means whatever the situation might dictate. I'm not so convinced that this is the proper interpretation. By this definition, the Scout can say "My Mom forgot to dry my uniform after washing it last night" and the BoR would have to accept it. There are a thousand different excuses for not wearing the complete uniform. I'm not willing to accept most. Accepting these excuses would be counterproductive to character building. Short of a funeral (pretty extreme example), there are very few good reasons why a Scout wouldn't show up in uniform. As to this being an issue for the BoR vice the Scoutmaster, I tend to agree. Although, the Scoutmaster would have his say when it came to sign off the boy on Scout spirit (prior to the BoR).

 

Your knowledge concerning BSA policies, procedures, and history, is very impressive (I applaud your dedication), but I don't think you have a lock on policy interpretation. Or at least, you haven't convinced me for this particular policy.

 

[Bob White]

Actually we agree completely. My whole point is it is for the BOR to determine if the scout dressed properly, not the SM.

 

I am really less hung up on the policies than I am on allowing everyone to do there own job (and taking the training required to it it correctly).

 

The SM is not the Big Wheel, dictatorships do not produce good citizenship.