What would you have done...?

[Eagledad]

Character isn't how one contends with the expected; character is how one contends with the unexpected. I would say your scouts just witnessed great character from the troop's adults. They will take that lesson with them forever.

 

Barry

[BrentAllen]

I guess I'm not so sure about the lessons learned here.

 

SMT224, what did you learn? That making reservations is a waste of time? That who ever gets there first, and puts his foot down, wins?

 

I'm pretty sure I know what the other Troop learned (or had learned before). Take what you want, get your gear set up and don't back down - the other guy will fold.

 

As for the Scouts in SMT224's Troop, I don't know. They didn't learn that when you make a mistake, you should admit it and try to make things right. They didn't learn that when someone is gracious to you, you should find some way to thank them. I'm afraid they learned that a hard-nosed, stiff-necked attitude will get you what you want, even if it isn't rightfully yours.

 

Our State Parks have resident Rangers and staff. They are pretty visible on the property. They would have settled a problem like this pretty quickly, in favor of those who planned ahead and followed the rules.

[OldGreyEagle]

Brent, SMT posted:

 

"As far as official intervention... the Rangers at this place are now M-F 8-5 due to State budget cuts. So any official would have been the county Sheriff, who would not have been too pleased to have to drive several miles of very unimproved dirt road so late at night. And would the outcome have been any different? I could imagine waiting an hours for a tired-looking Sheriff to ask me why I wanted them to move when there was a perfectly fine site we could set up into just down the road. We just decided that route was not worth it."

 

Given there were no Park Ramgers to be had, would you have had SMT call 911 and tell the operator "A Boy Scout Troop is camping in my spot?"

 

You would want the police to show up, have it picked up on the local media and then it becomes a national story that a Boy Scout Troop was acting unscoutlike to another? That's a good idea?

 

Do you sic whatever scouts you have on the entrenched troop to destroy thier equipment because by God, they are wrong and need to be punished?

 

It was an overall poor show by the entrenched scouts, I would let the State park know what happened, but other than demanding the Scoutmastrer give up a pound of flesh at the next Roundtable, what would you have had them done?

 

SMT, you aquitted scouting and its values quite well, good job!

[mbrownkc7]

Wouldn't it make sense that if a park is going to take a reservation then they should mark the campsite as reserved and by whom. There is an Eagle project for you. Reservation markers for parks.

 

I have came across this before and I have seen many park maps. Knowing this I can understand how a park map can be misread and you might end up in the wrong part. Another idea for the Eagle Project. Create a easy to understand park map.

 

Here is an idea for the park. Make better maps, clearly mark sites that are reserved, and give a good contact number for a person of athority on call. The person of contact doesn't have to be there but available.

 

I just get tired of some of the folk working the parks. They are really good at taking my money but after that it goes down hill.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

OGE, funny, but I don't remember mentioning any of those things, but thanks for the vivid imagination.

 

Let's see, what else could I do, in a similar situation? If I think real hard, I could probably pull out my cell phone and try to reach the Ranger at home. If not, I could probably reach the Sheriff (not by 911, they do have office numbers, ya know). I would like to think the park would have some appropriate phone numbers posted at the front office for after hours. If I could get one of these folks on the phone, we should be able to get this settled, and no one would have to drive out.

 

If modern technology isn't working, I would have gone to the other site for the night, and would be at the front office at 8:00 AM the next morning. In my judgement, based on the other Troop's action and attitude, this was not the first time they have pulled this, and it won't be the last. The only way to keep them from doing it again is to make them pack up and move.

 

But hey, OGE, you are a bigger man than me.

[prairie]

Just the sorta thing I wanted to avoid last year, county park has no real reservation system so at lunch time Friday I drove the 5 miles and pitched a cheap tent on the site we wanted (dead end corner lot 400 feet away from the pit toilet), payed the camp fee and went back to work. Funny thing was when I got back there later another troop from another council had the next spot to us, not so nice cause the latrine is only 50 feet away and the door always banged.

[SMT224]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions as to how you would have handled the situation...

 

mbrownkc7, I really like your idea of doing an Eagle project of better campsite markers and a map. One of the Scouts on this trip is gonna need one in about a year, so this could be a good way to vent his frustration.

 

Perhaps the lesson I'll bring to the Scouts at our Troop meeting this week is that just cause your right doesn't mean you need to engage... sometimes it's better to walk away.

 

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

"But hey, OGE, you are a bigger man than me."

 

Hey just you wait, I already said I would get thinner, but I will not get as small

 

Perhaps you should look up "hyperbole"

[Eagledad]

>>As for the Scouts in SMT224's Troop, I don't know. They didn't learn that when you make a mistake, you should admit it and try to make things right. They didn't learn that when someone is gracious to you, you should find some way to thank them. I'm afraid they learned that a hard-nosed, stiff-necked attitude will get you what you want, even if it isn't rightfully yours.

[theysawyoucomin']

I applaud your actions but I would have made my feelings known among his adults, your adults and the Ranger, maybe the Council and the district too.

 

You had a paper that said he was dead wrong, he should have not been so high and mightly adding 30 more people to the wrong site it doesn't make him right. If I was him the first activity the next morning would have been to move to my correct site with an explanation that MR uz2bnowl got it wrong and exihibut the proper action by moving.

Both Troops of boys would have learned the proper thing to do....isn't that what we are here for?????

[Smithgall]

i would have handled it just as you did. if the alternative worked for you then just take the alternative site and go with it. Frustating as it may be.

 

We had a very similar experience. We were doing a kayak trip and at our half way point was a camp with "cabins" (which were really just screened in 10x10 rooms) we had about 13 people with us, kids and adults. When we go to the site there was a troop that had about 50 people camping. They claimed they had the cabins (still not sure who screwed up) and we could use the primitive campsite. problem was we didnt bring any tents as we were kayaking and it was going to rain. Fortunately they "allowed" us to have one of the cabins for all of us. we werent very happy but it worked. however when we woke up in the morning we noticed that the other troop had tents all over the place and only 2-3 people in their cabins. so while we slept nearly on top of each other they were spread out everywhere and also took the entire pavillion. Not much scout spirit from them

[scoutldr]

The rising epidemic of narcissism. Get used to it.

[SMT224]

Just got back from our October camping trip, and when we pulled in on Friday night at 9:30 pm (in the rain), guess what? Another Troop was in our site!

 

This was a completely different State Park than in September (original posting) with 4 Youth Group sites. We pulled up and told them they were in our site, and they immediately apologized and moved to the right site. They said they didn't realize they were in the wrong site, and didn't hesitate to make things right.

 

What a difference from last month!!

 

Good to see the Scout Spirit is alive and well in some Troops!

[eghiglie]

My troop is only 2 yo, and our first trip in Sept 07 had a very similar problem.

 

We had the group site with the covered pavilion, having paid more for it. When we arrived another troop had squatted there claiming 'they did not know'. We camped right in the same spot on the other side of the pavilion. The next morning the SM from the other troop complained about us to the ranger. After the ranger looked at the paperwork he wanted them leave the park for violating rules.

 

I told the ranger that the punishment was more than the crime deserved and that they were now my guests. The other troop was flabbergasted that we would do something so nice. The other troop thanked us by making and sharing dinner with us.

 

On Sunday check out the Ranger credited our fee back to us. It wasn't a lot of money but it did boost our spirits.

 

From then on though we send an advance guy who can take off earlier on Friday, this has solved problems twice since then.

 

[packsaddle]

eghiglie, I salute your level-headed response. Hopefully the other troop learned ALL the lessons that your example provided.

You know, from all these stories...I'm beginning to wonder if we have a systemic problem of being unable to follow rules or something. Maybe need some improved reading skills?