Food in tents

[Hal_Crawford]

Barry:

I guess that there is a world of difference between practices at Northern Tier and Philmont or where we are in the Mid-Atlantic.

 

Most of our trekking is in the Spring and Summer and hypothermia is not a major concern when we are making camp. Last week was unseasonably cool in the mountains of Virginia but it was still warm/hot until well after sunset. The temperature tended to plummet at about 1amWe were generally making camp in the early afternoon.

 

Though I have not yet had the pleasure of a Philmont trek I believe that the situation is similar, warm/hot by day and cool/cold at night.

 

Of course, if we had a scout at risk of hypothermia (perhaps he fell in a creek) we would adjust as safety warranted.

 

 

Hal

[Eagledad]

I have always wanted to hike the Mid Alantic area, they say the view is unbelievable. I'll give you a call when we head east so you can point us to best spots. I can see that Philmont is quite a jog from your part of the county. I grew up in New Mexico, so its home to me and Philmont is just a day drive for us from Oklahoma. I'd say we are lucky, but I'm not sure Philmont can beat what you already have. There is the Philmont program of course and that is unique. But as far as a great back county experience, hard to beat the Mid Atlantic.

 

Barry

[GernBlansten]

NT in Bissett, MB doesn't use bear bags. The trees that far north just aren't big enough to properly hang a bag. So, bear canoes are the norm. You put the food packs on the ground and a canoe upside down over them, away from the tents. Then stack your pots on the canoe. Anyone hears the pots, rally everyone awake to scare the bear off.

 

But no food in tents. Same protocol as anywhere.

[Eagle1982]

"There also appears to be a difference among bears even in relatively small spaces. The stories I hear about Yosemite bears suggests that they have lost all fear of humans and have learned a great deal over the years about human habits. Alledgedly they even know what ice chests are for. Similarly, Philmont bears probably get more exposure to humans than bears in less intensively used areas. So modifying one's priorities to adapt to local bear behaviors makes a certain amount of sense. I have no science to support this, but I think it is a reasonable hypothesis. "

 

Actually, if bears were to have a convention and get together to share stories, we would be in a lot of trouble. Different National Parks have different rules regarding food storage. I believe in Yosemite (or Glacier) only the bear vault is allowed, as the bears there have figured out how to open a bearicade (it may be the other way around). Always check the parks regulations before setting off. Supposedly near Shenandoah, a mama bear taught her cub to climb a tree, shimmy along the branch and jump on the hanging bag, to have it crash to the ground, and make a nice feast.

[shortridge]

Around here (also in the mid-Atlantic area), bears aren't much of a problem - it's critters, mainly raccoons, who can get into your food, chew up your pack or tent and generally ruin stuff. But the net effect is generally the same - you're minus food or a crucial piece of gear.

[Eagledad]

>>NT in Bissett, MB doesn't use bear bags. The trees that far north just aren't big enough to properly hang a bag. So, bear canoes are the norm. You put the food packs on the ground and a canoe upside down over them, away from the tents. Then stack your pots on the canoe. Anyone hears the pots, rally everyone awake to scare the bear off.

[GernBlansten]

Its not so much "hiding" the food from the bears, but creating enough of an obstacle such that we are alerted when he is trying to get into the stash. They will find the food, no matter what we do.

 

I think the bear problems at Philmont, Yosemite and Yellowstone are more serious is because of the massive number of people they come into contact with and get sensitized to our presence and know us as a food source. In Colorado or even up at NT, you are lucky to even see a bear and if you do, you generally will only see his rump because he's running away from you.

[Hal_Crawford]

I agree with Gern. We see the scat and the tracks but we rarely ever see the bear. And yes, bears do sh*t in the woods.

[Eagledad]

Philmont doesn't really have a problem either. It has the appearance of a problem because the scouting community network is broad spreads news really fast. One incident sets off a pretty big alarm. Im trying to remember, but I want to say that they have had only two bear incidents in the last 20 years with only one of those requiring medical attention.

 

Barry

 

[sweetspiritpamh]

This is a little off but this is what made girls in scouts get the message clear. On a weekend on Friday night our group about 45 scouts spent the night at NASA space camp. Really cool experience of sleeping under the stars. Just before we left NASA we let the girls go into the gift shop to buy something small. They sold candy there.Some bought candy instead of the cool t shirt that said I camped in space. Well second night of our trip we were going to sleep in cabins at the state park. We had always told them no food or scented things in the tents on camping trips. Part of the group was a older group of kids from our town. Apparently their leader had never stressed the NO FOOD rule. Well after getting everyone settled in the entire group went on a hike to see the scenery. When we got back about a hour later we heard lots of yelling from one of the other scout groups girls.Appatently the raccoons in this park were so used to people they even could figure out opening the latches that were on the cabins.The raccoons had torn up the bags trying to get the stash and one girl found her day pack about a half mile down the lane. They were having a field day on that candy bought in the gift shop. My girls never forgot it and got real serious about making sure no one tried to bring anything into sleeping quarters again.

[Knot Head]

We stress this at each campout and explain why. Whether it's skunks, racoons, mice (think food chain... snakes eat mice) you don't want to atract critters to your tent. Basically we try to explain why.

 

This year I found a skittle wrapper in the common area at summer camp. At group the question was posed "who wants a skunks or copperheads in their tent tonight?" No raised hands. "Well, if you don't want a skunk or a copperhead in your tent you better eat the skittles at the trading post and not in your tent or common area."

 

 

[GernBlansten]

Eagle son just returned from staffing NYLT. They had bear problems. One night the bruin knocked over a patrol box. The next night, the boys were out-posting across the reservation and he destroyed a boy's vacant tent. Seems the boy left a packet of Oreos (sealed) in it. So Eagle son got to do a two hour shift of bear watch every additional night.

 

 

[walk in the woods]

Give the speech every camp out, never sinks in. At least not until Friday night this year at summer camp. We walked back from the closing camp fire and found a pillow, sleeping bag, packs, personal gear all over the common area. One of my first year campers had GRAPE JELLY in his tent. He and his tent mate spent a fair amount of time rebuilding their tent only to tear it down a few hours later when we left. We had raccoons in camp almost every evening during the week just passing through. For some reason, this kid didn't get it. More importantly, one of my older scouts said, "Gee, I had bread in my tent, guess I got lucky." Maybe it'll sink in this time.

[eisely]

There is a particular camp site in the Point Reyes National Sea Shore North of San Francisco that is infested with aggressive raccoons. They will even come up on your picnic table if your back is turned. Critters do learn, sometimes faster than humans learn.

[meschen]

On my son's first campout with his Troop last year, my son decided that the no food in tent rule wasn't really a big deal. He had trail mix and candy stashed somewhere in his tent. A squirrel ate its way through a corner of a troop tent and found the stash. When he got home at the end of the week, my son complained about the fact that he had picked-up the nickname "Squirrel Boy" as a result. I told him he was luck his nickname wasn't "Bear Boy".

 

I just kind of hope he's learned a leason.