whitewater

[eisely]

The thread started about the death on the Snake River raises a number of important issues. There is a trend among Americans generally to push the envelope in recreational pursuits, often at great and unrecognized risk. After someone dies people scratch their heads and wonder why anybody would do such things. This is not a sensible approach.

 

I am an experienced canoeist with limited whitewater experience. I find it scary at times and have consumed plenty of raw river water. My family and I did whitewater rafting with a commerical operation on the South Fork of the American River thirteen years ago. While we had fun, my wife and I agreed we would not do it again. Even though we were in a raft skippered by an experienced trained guide, I still ended up in the water.

 

The lack of training standards is a serious cause of concern. As a member of our council's newly formed Aquatics Committee, I have an obligation to think seriously about these matters. I count myself as experienced, but still lacking a lot of knowledge.

 

What kinds of non BSA training would people suggest? Would training make a difference?

[BrentAllen]

eisely,

This is what I posted on the other thread, before I read yours:

 

From current BSA Safety Afloat:

 

6. Skill Proficiency

 

All participants in activity afloat must be trained and experienced in watercraft handling skills, safety, and emergency procedures. (a) For unit activity on white water, all participants must complete special training by a BSA Aquatics Instructor or qualified whitewater specialist.

 

 

Additional information for white water activities:

 

American Whitewater Guidelines

The following guidelines, adapted from the American Whitewater Safety Code, are geared especially for Scouting-related whitewater activities and are an excellent supplement to the SAfety Afloat guidelines.

 

 

1.Be a competent swimmer

Being a safe whitewater boater does not require Olympian swimming skills, but you should be comfortable and competent in the water and be able to handle yourself underwater.

 

2.Wear a personal flotation device (PFD)

A properly fitted vest-type PFD offers back and shoulder protection as well as the flotation needed to swim safely in whitewater.

 

3.Wear a solid, correctly fitted helmet

A helmet is essential in kayaks or covered canoes and is recommended for open canoeists using thigh straps and rafters running steep drops.

 

4.Keep your boat under control

Your skills should be sufficiently developed to enable you to stop or get to shore before reaching danger. Do not enter a rapid unless you are reasonably sure that you can run it safely or swim it without injury.

 

5.Be aware of river hazards

Whitewater rivers present many hazards, such as high water of very cold water, strainers (brush or trees in the water), dams, ledges, holes, undercut rocks, or places where broaching (hitting an obstacle broadside) is likely. If you do not think you can boat around a hazard, get out and walk.

 

6.Avoid Boating Alone

The recommended minimum party is three people in at least two craft.

 

7.Know the limits of your boating ability

Do not attempt rivers or rapids that require paddling skills more advanced than those you possess

 

8.Know how to self-rescue

Learn and practice self-rescue techniques such as recovering from a capsize.

 

9.Be trained in rescue skills

Be able to perform CPR and first aid, including being able to recognize and treat hypothermia.

 

10.Be suitable equipped and prepared for emergencies

■Wear shoes that protect your feet.

■Carry a throw rope, knife, whistle, and waterproof matches.

■Tie your glasses on.

■Bring duct tape on short runs and a full repair kit on isolated rivers.

■Do not wear bulky clothing that could get waterlogged and hinder your ability to swim.

 

 

11.Be responsible for your own safety

■Make thoughtful and responsible decisions about whether to participate in a trip.

■Choose appropriate equipment.

■Scout all rapids first and use your best judgment to decide whether to run or portage.

■Evaluate your own and your group's safety on an ongoing basis. Speak with anyone whose actions on the water are dangerous, whether the person is a part of your group or not.

 

For more information about whitewater safety and to view the complete American Whitewater Safety Code, visit www.americanwhitewater.org

 

When we go whitewater rafting as part of the Summer Camp program, we get instruction from the guides, mainly about "nose and toes" and don't try to stand up in the river, grab the rope - not the bag, never let go of the t-grip, etc. On the Nantahala, most of the few deaths that have occured over the years (non-Scouting) have been from foot traps. The Summer Camp staff also offer a "guide" class for adults about basic stern strokes, positioning, navigation, how to run the Class III's at the bottom. I think they do a very good job, and the whitewater trips are usually the highlights of the week.

 

The older Scouts (3rd year and older) get to run the Ocoee, fully guided. We got instruction about "nose and toes", grab the rope - not the bag, keep the t-grip, paddle together, high side, etc. Our raft wasn't in the greatest of shape, and we had a fairly new guide, which made for a wet ride. Just about everyone ended up in the river at one time or another. I awarded a few Class IV Rapid Swimmer MBs at our COH, as they were well earned. The boys can't wait to get back to camp next summer and run it again. Yes, there is some risk to the sport and it is not for everyone. I do not feel it is a hazardous risk, and it is probably safer than travelling on the highway. The boys sure love it.

[Beavah]

Yeh can also check out the American Whitewater Safety Code at

 

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/do-op/id/safety:start

 

Honestly, eisley, da last thing I'd want to see is someone with little whitewater experience tryin' to set rules for a council because they happen to be on a committee.

 

Da world would be a much better place, and G2SS would be a much better document, if people limited their rulemaking to areas where they had real expertise.

 

Beavah

 

[SR540Beaver]

Looks like the BSA is getting into the whitewater high adventure business.

 

Boy Scouts Sign Agreement to Purchase Fayette County Property

 

http://www.cbs59.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=61979

[BrentAllen]

Our SE mentioned this at the SM Supper at summer camp. They plan to have whitewater rafting on the New and Gauley Rivers, which are supposed to be fantastic rafting rivers. I believe these purchases (Fayette Co., WV and Goshen, VA)are part of the reason for the annual dues increase from $10 to $15.

 

With the addition of a fourth national high adventure base, I guess the HA Triple Crown will change to what? A Quadruple Crown?

[Hal_Crawford]

The news piece seems confused about the Jamboree and High Adventure sites. Jamboree will be at Goshen and HA will be at the WVA site.

 

Our troop is at camp this week at Goshen and I will be interested in hearing what was said at the leaders' supper. I will be up there in two weeks for their high adventure program but I doubt any of us will get an opportunity to partake of the SE's hospitality.

 

 

[eisely]

Beavah,

 

Thanks for the personal shot. I started this thread precisely because I was looking for information. What has been posted is most helpful.

[BrentAllen]

eisley,

Our council started requiring the Scouts to wear helmets on the Nantahala this year. You could spot the Boy Scouts on the river because they were the only ones wearing them. Not a bad idea, and the boys didn't seem to mind at all. Helmets are standard on the Ocoee.

 

Here are a few photos of how NOT to go over the Nantahala Falls (Class III).

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/ThumbPage.aspx?e=4822273&s=175

This boat was right in front of us, complete capsize (top row, photos 178 - 182). Everyone was fine. The exit point is just below the falls. Our boat is following - the boys are all looking forward at the other rafters in the water (183, 184).

 

Camp Woodruff offers a Whitewater Challenge program at Summer Camp - Five Days, Five Rivers. This is for older boys, and is an all-day program, so these boys don't earn any MBs (other than Whitewater) or participate in other camp activities. For more info, go to http://wsr.atlantabsacamp.org/downloads/wsr/WoodruffProgramOverview-WWaterChallenge-030109-2.pdf

[eisely]

Out council does not have anything resembling a whitewater program. Perhaps the ready availability of commercially guided whitewater rafting opportunities in the Sierras diminishes the demand for such a program. In any event, nobody has yet suggested that the council should even attempt to go there, and there are numerous higher priorities for us to worry about.

[BrentAllen]

eisley,

The council program is a joint effort between the council and a private operator. I'm guessing the private operater provides most, if not all, of the staffing and equipment for the whitewater program. Your council wouldn't need to train and acquire staff to add a similar program, just hook up with a qualified, reputable company. I'm sure a local company would love the extra business. Offering Whitewater Merit Badge would be a popular program, I would think.

[Eagle92]

I know when my old council did a canoeing trek program back in the day, they contracted with some guides. The guides loved it as it gave them steady work during the week.

[Beavah]

The guides loved it as it gave them steady work during the week.

 

Yah, this is a good point, eh? A lot of outfitters would love a steady thing during weekdays. Fairly easy for a council camp to set up that kind of relationship if yeh have the natural resources for it in the area.

 

BTW, no personal shot intended, eisley. Sorry if it came off that way. Just that I've seen so many times when policy makers and politicians get into the "We must do something!" mentality, eh? If yeh think there's a real issue in your council for some reason (you've had a series of incidents or near-misses perhaps?) then I'd encourage you to go recruit some local professional guides and a few of your council's scouters who have real background in whitewater and let them "think deeply" about the matter. Yeh can probably even get guys like Charlie Walbridge to come out and consult if yeh call 'em up and ask.

 

Dependin' on where you're at, you folks get a lot of water and flood-stage stuff in da Sierras, so I'd expect most of your scouters who are inclined to do such trips are pretty aware of things. If yeh haven't had any particular problems in your council, I'm not sure I'd worry about it beyond some low-grade education endeavors. Send out the AW safety code once a year, with some reminders about springtime river levels and a bit of beta on good outfitters to work with and good rivers to consider for different kinds of groups. Add some supplemental stuff into your Safety Afloat presentations.

 

Thinkin' about Wayne's input, since yeh have local outfitters, you might call some of 'em up and ask if they've seen any "issues" with scout trips. You can either back-check your tour permits to have UC's talk to anybody who was a problem, or you can ask da outfitters to help yeh address some preventive education to your RT's and such. Most outfitters I know would be happy to run a short-form "intro to guiding" thing if you ask.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Kahuna]

Only a little OT, a family vacation turned into tragedy when they were water sliding on a river. The father who died saving his son was a scouter among other things.

 

http://tinyurl.com/n5965u

[le Voyageur]

Here's just a small bit of what I would suggest for non BSA training....

 

Swift Water Navigation - oar and paddle techniques, route selection, hydraulics, strategies (momentum, ferry angles, bump, runs), boat spacing and river etiquette. Portaging, lining, and assisted portages. Strainers,undercuts, and hazards.

 

Swift Water Rescue, swimming in whitewater, dealing with flips, dealing with wraps, and pins. Foot entrapment, evacuation strategies and planning. Hand and paddle signals, dealing with hypothermia.

 

Basic z drags, 3 to 1's, knots, slings and anchors

 

Boat care, loading, rigging, and repairing...

 

WFR - NOLS or SOLO, the gold standards, nothing less

 

River dynamics, CFS, volume, watershed, bottom topography,

Driver training - getting boats, gear, and crews to and from the river(This message has been edited by Le Voyageur)

[Eamonn]

SR540Beaver,

How'd you do that?

I live only a couple of miles from Fayette county and had no idea what was going on.

You really are in the know and on top of things.

There has for some time been a lot of talk about the BSA wanting to buy land for another High Adventure base in our area.

eisely

I don't have the knowledge to answer what you asked.

I have taken Scouts on the out on our local rivers.

When it comes to White Water , as a rule we use:

http://www.wilderness-voyageurs.com/faq_scouts.htm

These guys have a close working relationship with our Council.

In fact I kinda think if we were to try and put together some sort of a "How To Guide", these are the people we would ask.

I was a little surprised a couple of years back when we went Sea Kayaking at a BSA approved H/A base that at the end of the week they presented me with an instructor patch and certificate, they also sent this information via Scoutnet to my local Council.

I consider myself to be an average Scouter??

That is to say that I'm OK at most things, but not really an expert in anything.

Living in land-locked PA. I never thought about ever wanting to become a Sea Kayaking instructor.

For my part, I'm happy to pay a guide who has more know how than I have.

Of course we have to hope that whoever has hired the guide has done a good job of ensuring that they know what they are doing and if need be have all the right qualifications.

To be honest I prefer working with people who have received the training from an agency that specializes in whatever the area is, over someone who just has something from the BSA.

Ea.