2010 Scout Weight Restrictions

[Hal_Crawford]

Gern:

You raise an interesting point. How is the 30 minutes determined? Is it the time it takes a healthy person to walk out? That could be a mile or two. Or is it the time it would take a given crew/patrol to litter carry the heaviest member? And how does anyone figure that out? It seems that in the interest of being specific they have once again achieved vague.

 

Regardless of what they say, I think that health risk factors are a part of this equation. If I have an MI two miles from the road I am probably a dead man. It has nothing to do with how far the crew can carry me and everything to do with how long it will take to get a defibrillator to me. Anything over ten minutes and my chances are slim. Now I way about 10 pounds over the ideal range. That increases my chances of having that MI. If I were over the maximum for my height (about 40 more pounds) then my risk of having that MI would be through the roof. I would have no business taking youth into the back country.

 

I know that muscle weighs more than fat and some "highly trained athletes" might be excluded but that might be 1% of the people over the maximum. The other 99%, it ain't muscle.

 

 

 

 

[GernBlansten]

I'm going to put on my mind reading cap and try to assume what BSA means by the 30 minutes.

BTW, it clearly is a poorly written statement to cause this much discussion purely on its definition.

 

A 30 minute rule would make sense if it was for a normal healthy person traveling by foot to a point where EMS could assist (a road). For me, without running, that would be about 1.5 miles. If it was to carry an injured man out, it would closer to .5 miles. If that was their intent, then it surely isn't an unreasonable requirement to have participants meet the weight guidelines. So why 30 minutes and not 1.5 miles? Terrain varies. In caving, a few hundred yards could take more than 30 minutes. In canoeing, maybe 3 miles. In alpine snow? who knows? So the time requirement makes more sense than an arbitrary distance.

 

I think they came up with the rule to explicitly rule out the requirement for 95% of suburbanite scouting. Its specifically related to back country. Lets face it, very few of us take scouts into those realms, and if we do, it makes absolute sense to have those guidelines.

 

And for those of you who think the BSA is trying to run the large ones out, why do they still sell XXL uniforms?

[Hal_Crawford]

"And for those of you who think the BSA is trying to run the large ones out, why do they still sell XXL uniforms? "

 

For Council and National staff, duh!

[Eagle92]

Some food for thought on the BMI scale. I just had my BMI done via an electronic pulse scale, and then compared that score to the CDC's BMI calculator. There was a difference. Also did the CDC's BMI calculator for teens, using some data from back in the day when I swimming 6 hours a day/5 days a week, duing the summer and 2 hours a day 3 times a week. According to that scale I was overweight then too.

[CRK7376]

Height and Weight are important and I was worried about the inprocessing portion at Philmont this past summer. I'm a big guy and as a military officer I always bust the Army's height weight table but qualify when they put the tape to me. Anyway back to Philmont, I was concerned that Philmont Medical Staff would see my weight and say no....They didn't ask me to step on a scale, didn't ask my weight, they did take my BP/Heart rate, do a very minimual health screening. Mostly how are you feeling, taking any medication etc...I'm big, but do lots of physical fitness training, running/aerobic activity etc...Our Troop did Trek #32 probably close to 90 miles worth of trail at Philmont, our average elevation was 7600ft, not bad for a bunch of NC flatlanders.....I had a blast as did my son and the rest of our Crew!

[mikecummings157]

Maybe I missed it, but does anyone know how this will be handled for the Jamboree? Our contingent leadership has been stressing the BMI since sign-up with the boys and adults. There will be a lot of walking, as well as high heat index. However, there are several 1st Aid centers and a base hospital.

[Eagle92]

Mike,

if memory serves from discussions elsewhere, for jambo if you do not meet H/W guidelines, you will be sent home at your own expense. They may have changed that since I last heard a few months back though.

[RememberSchiff]

No you can be as fat as National execs.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Resources/MedicalFormFAQs.aspx

 

"The height/weight chart generally would not apply (unless your lodge, unit, district, or council says it does) in the following:

 

o The majority of BSA resident camps, as most Cub Scout/Boy Scout resident camps (not high-adventure camps) have drive-up campsites and dont require packing in or out.

o Cub Scout programs. (Backcountry and high-adventure are not age-appropriate for Cub Scouting/)

o Wood Badge courses in a typical resident camp setting. Again, Philmont Scout Ranch has this requirement in place.

o The 2010 National Scout Jamboree. (However, please review the Be Prepared link to review all medical risk factors, including excessive body weight.)

 

Q. Is the height/weight chart mandatory for the 2010 National Scout Jamboree?

A. No. However, if you review the risk factors on www.bsajamboree.org under the Be Prepared tab, you can see that we recommend a body mass index (BMI) of less than 30 (obese) for adult staff positions requiring moderate to high physical exertion. We recommend that youth fall within the 5th and 85th percentiles. As with past jamborees, this 100th Anniversary jamboree promises that everyone will be walking at least 5 miles per day. In order to make this the best, most exciting, fun-filled, safest jamboree ever, being prepared and in the best Scouting shape possible is a must. Youth with BMIs over the 95th percentile and adults with BMIs over 40 (morbidly obese) should reconsider participation. This subject was discussed in the January 2009 issue of Scouting magazine. Watch the jamboree newsletters and Web site for more information. "

 

[Frank17]

We just lost one of our NT crews because the adults were over the limit. Shame, but I can understabnd the reasoning.

[HICO_Eagle]

More nonsense from National which I'm afraid will cost us volunteers when we need them the most. Instead of H/W rules, they should be using performance guidelines -- e.g., able to hike 5/10/20 miles unassisted in 2/4/8 hours or able to be carried by any four Scouts participating on trip, etc. As was pointed out, mass is mass -- that 12 year old Scout isn't going to be any happier about carrying 300 pounds of muscle than 280 pounds of fat.

 

I love Scouting but I am really getting annoyed by this profusion of dictates from National.

[Eagle92]

Hico,

Agree 100% on this one.

[AnaMaria]

Just a point of clarification - muscle and bone are more dense than fat, they do not weigh more.

[Eagle92]

Ana,

According to what was discussed over on SC, doesn't matter what the BMI from another method is, only the height/weight method of calculating BMI counts.

 

So if some of the Devil Dogs in my council who have a BMI

[OldGreyEagle]

I was always given to understand that most of the time weght restrictions were based on evacuation equipment limitations and not on the supposed health of the individual. The 330 lbs totally fit guy who busts an ankle is out of luck when the helio stretcher says 300 lbs is the limit.

 

Sometimes its not about how healthy you are, its the equipment limitations

[RememberSchiff]

Yeah so is 230lb 5'10" fit person out of luck no matter what the equipment rating. Chart says no,so he/she can't go high adventure.

 

Also note how once again the new Health and Medical form has changed without notice. Notice how Form C now includes a whitelist of those allowed to pickup child and a blacklist of those who are not. Form C should not be part of the annual medical rather part of the particular event permission slip.

 

(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)