LNT training

[RememberSchiff]

Auditory impact has environmental impact - it can scare away and disrupt wildlife. Also a quiet hiker sees and hears more. So this is credible.

 

Visual impact has no environmental impact. In the woods, I dress for safety not for politically-correct fashion.

 

My $0.01

[OldGreyEagle]

Hold on here, in a recent thread there was a call to bring back campfires, and no, not necessarily bon fires one can see from the Space Station, but Sing Along, Skits littered and song heavy Campfires and now, we are going to say that to much noise in the back country is bad? If I am in a public campsite and there are people around other than the troop, we will adhere to lights out and all the quiet rules they have, if we are alone, we will scream as loud as possible.

 

Its really surprising how LNT, a principle more in step with the thinking of Left Wing Tree Hugging Environmetal Whackos is so readily accepted into an organization that seems to lean quite conservtive and almost reactionary. People are going to tell me what color to wear? What color my equipment has to be? Whats nex, I have to wear only approved colors and speak using approved words?

 

I will walk on prepared surface first, cook on a stove, only build fires in established fire circles. I will pack in and pack out whatver is required. I will leave my campsite better than when I found it, or at least as pristine as I found it.

 

But, I guess the noise thing and the color scheme is where I draw the line.

[GernBlansten]

"As an American, I will do my best, to be clean in my outdoor manners, to be careful with fire, to be considerate in the outdoors, and to be conservation minded."

BSA Outdoor Code. We recite it at every meeting right after the Oath and Law.

 

By applying LNT ethics, we are practicing the outdoor code.

"clean in my outdoor manners" - proper wilderness hygiene and human waste management

"careful with fire" - fires only in existing fire rings, burn only dead fall, keep fires small and manageable.

"considerate in the outdoors" - be quiet. Blend in. Don't impact others enjoyment or disturb wildlife.

"conservation minded" - use only what you need. Leave it as good or better than you found it. Keep it wild for the next generation.

 

Despite what many here think LNT is, its more than just leaving your campsite better than you found it. What's wrong with being quiet in the woods? Whats wrong with blending in? Whats wrong with truly leaving no trace? What's wrong with the BSA Outdoor Code?

[OldGreyEagle]

A few years back, my son and I did some backpacking around Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons. They make you watch a video before picking up your Back Country permit, mostly the video talks about how to keep from attracting bears. One of the ponts was to make noise to "scare" bears or at the very least alert them to your approach. I guess we need to tell the National Park Service that they aren't LNT enough, we would rather have hikers move with stealth through the woods and stumble upon bears than make noise and allow them time to take off.

 

Whats wrong with being quiet in the woods? Nothing, neither is not being quiet in the woods and I will not spend the entire hiking with the sign up to remind the youth to keep quiet

[GernBlansten]

I think I've come across your group at Philmont! They were banging pots together as they hiked. Shouting to each other and really creating a commotion. We asked them what was up, and they responded they had seen a bear were making sure the other bears heard them.

 

So when your unit recites the Outdoor Code, do you just leave out "considerate in the outdoors"?

[scoutingagain]

Reminds me of a hike a took with a few friends years ago in NH a few days after hunting season had opened. While we didn't exactly bang pots and pans, we did sing, talked and shout out, "Human Beings Approaching!) every few hundred yards.

 

Quiet solitude in the wilderness has it's place. When your sharing it with a few hundred people who go out in the woods a few days a year with a firearm intent on shooting something is not one of them. Now now, I realize not all hunters are trigger happy morons, but even the most careful among the hunting croud would have to agree there are more than their fare share out there.

 

SA

[Beavah]

While we didn't exactly bang pots and pans, we did sing, talked and shout out, "Human Beings Approaching!) every few hundred yards.

 

You've got to be kiddin' me! It's a wonder you didn't get shot.

 

Deer season hunters get two weeks out of da year. For some of 'em, they need that buck to help feed their families, or at least help 'em out a bit financially. And yeh think it's fine and dandy to go marchin' along drivin' all wildlife away for miles because you assume da men out hunting can't recognize a blaze orange troop of boys?

 

As for bears, that advice applies primarily to solo hikers and such. Yeh don't have to worry a lick about a bear hearin' a patrol of Boy Scouts even if they're tryin' to be quiet.

 

As a conservative, I don't see LNT as a Liberal issue. I see it as bein' in the best conservative tradition. Teachin' personal responsibility rather than turning to intrusive regulation. Conservin' our environment for da future so that our grandkids can enjoy the same benefits of da nation that we did. But if we fail in teachin' that sort of personal responsibility, then there's no doubt da regulations will take over. No wonder land managers are increasingly putting group size and other restrictions on to try to keep Boy Scouts out of da woods. Our reputation as lousy campers is apparently deserved.

 

And here I am advocatin' in favor of da rules and principles, while OGE is firmly disobedient. Who'd a thunk it.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Whoa there again Big Fella, lets review what I said

 

first I posted

 

"I will observe LNT as far as fires and cooking and the reast goes, but clothing and equipment? I want to be seen "

 

And that was met with some degree with derision

 

then I posted

 

"If I am in a public campsite and there are people around other than the troop, we will adhere to lights out and all the quiet rules they have, if we are alone, we will scream as loud as possible."

 

then

 

"I will walk on prepared surface first, cook on a stove, only build fires in established fire circles. I will pack in and pack out whatver is required. I will leave my campsite better than when I found it, or at least as pristine as I found it"

 

And I am singled out as the rule breaker?

 

I should have some witty report here, but words fail me, if my thoughts on LNT make me part of the reason naturalists detest boy scouts, I guess that's their problem(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

[Beavah]

LOL, me thinks I struck a nerve.

 

I will observe LNT as far as fires and cooking and the reast goes, but clothing and equipment?

 

Sure seems like "I'll observe da rules and guidance I agree with, and ignore the rest." And I reckon "derision" is a bit strong, eh? More like friendly chiding.

 

If I am in a public campsite and there are people around other than the troop, we will adhere to lights out and all the quiet rules they have, if we are alone, we will scream as loud as possible.

 

Pretty disturbin' to the wildlife, eh? And I reckon there are few spots in the lower 48 where if a group screamed as loud as possible they wouldn't be heard by somebody. Might be fun briefly once or twice just to hear da echo, but as a regular practice and example to boys?

 

if my thoughts on LNT make me part of the reason naturalists detest boy scouts, I guess that's their problem

 

Nah, it's our problem, because it hurts our image and restricts our access to the woods and streams where we run our program. And it ain't "naturalists", it's "Land Management Agencies" and park rangers and fellow citizens on the trails.

 

Timeless values to my mind include livin' up to da standards of good campers and woodsmen, eh? Yep, those standards have changed quite a bit since I was a lad. Product of havin' 10 times the number of user-days on our public lands since when us young dinosaurs roamed. Doesn't absolve us, though.

 

B

 

[packsaddle]

While the toothy rodent and the outlaw go at it, I'll comment on something else.

 

"As a conservative, I don't see LNT as a Liberal issue." And I agree. It is a fine example of true conservativism. Trouble is, and people on all sides of politics are susceptible to this, if you disagree with something the last thing you tend to do is identify with it.

 

And then, "Yeh don't have to worry a lick about a bear hearin' a patrol of Boy Scouts even if they're tryin' to be quiet."

THAT's for SURE! One of my favorite song adaptations goes like this, (you have to imagine the voice of Julie Andrews here):

The hills are alive,

with the sounds of boy scouts.....