LNT training

[shortridge]

I'm going to be taking an LNT Trainer course next month, and wanted to pick some collective, experienced brains in advance. How do you implement LNT principles in your unit? Are there any specific lessons or demonstrations that you've found that are especially effective with Scouts? Any topics or practices that have posed special challenges?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[packsaddle]

"...how do you implement LNT principles in your unit?"

With great difficulty.

Unsuccessfully.

Incrementally.

Ok, that last one was the only one that was useful. There's just no way to go 'cold turkey' on the things like fires, food, and latrines all at the same time. So we work on the little things at first while we're still in 'traceable' areas. So far, I think we've always left some sort of trace although we came very close to no trace on a couple of really outstanding outings. So my best answer is not to expect immediate success but just keep chipping away.

[Basementdweller]

My experience was the trainers can be over zealous. No bright colored gear, hushed voices. My tent is bright orange, sorry. My pack is bright red. My shorts are Hawaiian.

 

I fully support the principle and practice it to the best of my ability. The no back country campfire is tough. Part of camping for me.

 

The rest of it is just common sense to me.

[CA_Scouter]

As others have advised, start small and work your way through the program. We started with designing menus that reduce waste and leftovers. We make smaller campfires now, we do a lot of cold breakfasts so there is no cleanup, etc. We really work the 'dispose of waste properly' angle because we do a lot of backpacking anyway. One exercise we did was to take a cheap frisbee, drill holes in it to use as a strainer for dishwater, so we can pack out the leftover 'nibbles'.

 

We brought in a rep from the local LNT org, she did a great job and engaged the scouts in various techniques and such. That got 'em started and now we'll probably have half a dozen or so of the guys getting their LNT patch next COH.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, I've seen da kids take to it just fine. They're growin' up in a world that values bein' environmentally responsible. Plus, it's fun, eh? Yeh can make it much like tracking and Special Operations - a game where yeh try to leave no sign of your presence. They don't mind not wearin' colored clothes. Earth tones and camo are better for capture the flag! Heck, the lads don't even mind not doin' fires, and pretty soon they start feelin' superior to all those goofs out there with da big bonfires who blacken the site for the rest of us. Cleaning is toughest for 'em, and not disturbing other visitors, same as always.

 

Problem with LNT is always the adults. Old folks are set in our ways. So we tend to pick and choose da parts of LNT that we agree with and ignore the rest as bein' "too extreme." Then kids bein' kids, they are looser than we are, and together we live up to da BSA's reputation of bein' lousy and irresponsible campers.

 

Shortridge, I'd say "make it a game", "always push for a perfect score", and get the youth leaders trained more than the adults. Then let da youth leaders conduct camp inspections and critique the adults on their LNT practices. The kids will work harder to show up the adults, and the adults will hopefully be shamed into doin' as well as the lads.

 

Hard to teach us old dogs new tricks.

 

Beavah

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Amen Beavah. The kids by and large get it. Its the adults that are hard to re-educate.

 

We do some of our back country camping in Shenandoah National Park which mandates LNT. Nobody seems to object when they understand that it is a condition of camping there.

[EagleBeaver]

There are some training games and activities on http://www.leavenotracedude.com

 

We have three scouts that each present a principle in 10 minutes with scouts rotating through the 3 presentations. So, in a 1/2 hour training time at 2 troop meetings, all the scouts participated in each principle. Not sitting and listening, but doing stuff.

These three scouts are presenting at local packs in May since the Cub Scout theme for May is "Leave Nothing but Footprints".

We'd like the OA Rep position to include doing LNT promotion since it is tied so close with promoting camping.

 

For 'implementing' LNT, every trek crew does a review training as part of the planning. Setting expectations before the trip makes a big difference. If there's a firepit we have a fire. Keeping food off the ground is probably our biggest challenge at the moment.

Breaking a 24-person camping group into two 12-person groups can make a big difference too.

 

Each patrol has a piece of window screen to strain dishwater, a stove for cooking, and garbage bags to help with waste disposal and campfire impacts. The rest of LNT doesn't really require specific gear and is just making choices.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

never quite understood the desire to go tramplig through the woods in camo, unless turkey hunting or bow deer hunting, but for just hiking? Why do I want to blend ala Cousin Vinnie?

 

When I joined the troop I joined, there was another father who joined about the same time. He always wore brilliant, fluoerescent jakets, shells and sweatshirts. I asked him where he got his colorful wardrobe from and he said he was a member of a Search and Rescue Squad and one of the first rules in Search and Rescue is not to get lost yourself. If I ever have to go out and look for a "confused" scout, I want him to see me and I want to be seen by all who are looking for the first person. If I trip or go down for any reason, I dont want to blend into the forest. My tents are bright, again, so a confused scout might spor them form a greater distance than if they blended in with the environment. I will observe LNT as far as fires and cooking and the reast goes, but clothing and equipment? I want to be seen

[GernBlansten]

But OGE, LNT isn't always about leaving no trace after you've gone, its about reducing your impact even while you are there. Visual impact.

Clearing a ridge that overlooks a beautiful meadow only to see colors not found in nature dotting the landscape diminishes the experience for the observer. I suggest natural colors, then carry a fluorescent signaling cloth for the times you need to be seen.

[packsaddle]

"I will observe LNT as far as fires and cooking and the reast goes, but clothing and equipment? I want to be seen"

 

OGE, As Dr. Lazarus on Galaxy Quest observed of Commander Taggart, "Oh right, of course... It's always about YOU, isn't it?!"

[Beavah]

I will observe LNT as far as fires and cooking and the reast goes, but clothing and equipment?

 

Yah, like I said, old dogs and new tricks. Unless yeh get da lads involved the old fellers will all choose to just follow da few parts of LNT that they already mostly do, and skip da rest figurin' they know better.

 

Personally, I'd suggest teachin' scouts how to navigate and find their way without relyin' on the (dubious) advantage of looking for large day-glo tents. Just seems more sensible. But if you're sure about it, I've known scouters who do the tent thing but with a big stereo. That way the confused lads can easily find the camp at night, too.

 

I reckon if I was really worried about "going down" and then relyin' on the color of my clothing to save me, I'd figure I was in terrain that's beyond my ability and that I should have a buddy. If I just hike with a buddy or choose an easier route, then no worries!

 

I confess I grumbled about a few things when I first went through LNT, eh? But it's really a pretty sensible ethic. Especially when yeh see how badly our regular old use in ever greater numbers has impacted some areas that scouts and adults once enjoyed.

 

B

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[cardinal50]

GernBlansten said:

But OGE, LNT isn't always about leaving no trace after you've gone, its about reducing your impact even while you are there. Visual impact.

Clearing a ridge that overlooks a beautiful meadow only to see colors not found in nature dotting the landscape diminishes the experience for the observer. I suggest natural colors, then carry a fluorescent signaling cloth for the times you need to be seen.

 

I reply:

Consider the Lilys of the field. Are they not found clothed in bright hues? Off the top of my head, I can't recall any tents or garments that were of a color not found in nature. I will concede that most flowers are not florescent and I do agree with the other tenets of LNT

 

YIS

Dave(This message has been edited by cardinal50)

[GernBlansten]

If the Lilys of the field were 6 ft diameter blaze orange or neon blue blossoms, you might have a good point. The issue is to minimize impact. That includes temporary visual impact while you are there. Running around in your hunter orange vests is not LNT. There are times and places that wearing hunter orange is pure self preservation.

 

If you want to follow LNT, it requires making decisions on what you bring. My REI half dome tent is a pale yellow and gray. It blends in. I think it qualifies.

[RememberSchiff]

Stick with the common sense basics but also let scouts know when LNT does NOT apply. In a survival situation. You want to leave a trace, break branches if you need to, set a smoky signal fire, and make yourself highly visible. Some scouts get a little confused about that.

 

IMO, LNT loses credence when it talks about "visual impact". Is there any environmental impact?

 

I always wear patches of safety orange and safety blue. Its color contrast and my movement, makes me more visible. I want to be seen and I want to see others. Safety is job #1 particularly when it seems hunting season is wherever, whenever. I wear light colors (never white) in warm, ticky weather and I am a black ninja in cold, snowy weather.

 

My $0.02,

 

[Beavah]

IMO, LNT loses credence when it talks about "visual impact". Is there any environmental impact?

 

So does it also lose credence when it talks about auditory impact? Dat loud stereo so that OGE's boys can find camp if they confused, is that OK? Marchin' down da trail or sittin' 'round da campfire at midnight singing at da top of your lungs OK?

 

Courtesy to other visitors comes in a lot of forms. Somethin' like 90% of our fellow citizens who go campin' do so for the solitude, if yeh believe National Park surveys and such. They go into the woods so as NOT to see other people and to get away from crowds.

 

Courtesy to them means respectin' that wish, eh? Leastways to my way of thinkin'. Givin' 'em a chance to take a picture of that meadow that they can save and treasure, without havin' 6 day glo orange tents on the edge. Stoppin' well off the trail in muted tone clothing so that others passing on the trail get to experience solitude, without seeing us or havin' to step over us.

 

If yeh want to "see and be seen" then yeh go to a dinner party or social function, eh? Not da woods.

 

Beavah