Weather Paranoia?

[eagle90]

We have a situation brewing in our troop I would like some input on. We have an adult who is extremely concerned about weather emergencies after the Iowa situation last year. While we are all concerned, and our direct contact adults have taken the BSA online course, this adult believes we should have a lightning detector as troop equipment and have escape drills on every weekend campout and run classes for our scouts on severe weather. I do carry a weather radio with on all campouts. While we are all in favor of being prepared, is this overkill? I can see these procedures almost freaking out some younger scouts. How do we calm down the reactionaries while not seeming insensitive or uncaring? By the way, this adult never camps with us. If he does drive, he stays in a local motel. Any ideas, suggestions? Thanks in advance, as usual.

[Beavah]

Yah, I was worried about this this year. I think we're seein' a lot more of it, as fewer parents serve in the military, fewer parents camp or hike, more kids get driven by mommy and daddy to school because it's cold or raining or hot or whatever. I think da BSA hazardous weather trainin' is a byproduct of that, in addition to a bone to throw a few parents to settle suits.

 

Tornado risk and lightning risk is present in-town and even in your house. Makes yeh wonder if this parent is runnin' weekly tornado drills and lightning safety drills for the whole family!

 

Yes, it's overkill.

 

Your biggest risk goin' campin' with your boys is driving to the campsite. So if yeh really want to control risk, make this parent take a defensive driving course and complete a drivin' test under your supervision.

 

Second biggest risk, IIRC, is havin' a tree knocked over on yeh. So no campin' near trees!

 

Risk of lightning in the flatland midwestern forests is negligible. Ain't worth spendin' a lick of time on. Risk of tornadoes is what it is, eh? Probably no worse in the field than it is if the boy stayed home. In fact, if da experience in Iowa tells us anything it's that taking shelter in a building can be more dangerous than lyin' in a ditch or hunkerin' down on an embankment. IIRC, all the boys who were killed or seriously injured were hurt when the building and brick fireplace got munched. And nationally, more people die of tornadoes in houses than outside.

 

None of that's goin' to help a lick with your worry-wart parents, and it will look insensitive. I think yeh acknowledge that there's some risk, but that you are all trained and experienced and the risk is manageable. Biggest issue is that this is unknown risk to this parent, and the unknown is scary. Easier to accept known risks that are much higher. So yeh can help with information, to try to make the issue more "known" to them.

 

Beavah

 

 

[Lisabob]

Maybe encourage this parent to take the online hazardous weather training too. Perhaps that will settle some fears. Probably not though. Another option might be to see if your council has any risk management folks advising the council. If so, talk with those folks about the situation and get their read on it. If you feel that those folks are reasonable and competent, then perhaps also consider inviting them to a troop committee meeting. Let them do a SHORT presentation on appropriate procedure and then answer any questions parents have.

 

 

[shortridge]

I'm trying to imagine an "escape drill" from a campout at a local state park. You get to the cars, pack up and zoom home.

 

Weather safety is just part of basic trip planning. You keep an eye on the forecast, you keep an eye on the weather, you take precautions if the weather turns lousy. No need to run drills unless there's something special about the area where you are or the trek you're on. (Backpacking vs. canoe camping, for example.)

 

But that should be part and parcel of what you're already doing.

[scoutldr]

I would say about the lightning detector, "If you buy it, we'll take it along."

[Stosh]

Just don't tell any parents about the bears, snakes, avalanches, earthquakes, forest fires, choppy lakes, etc. or you will lose your scout. If the boy's going to have an accident, it's better he twist an ankle walking next door to his buddy's.

 

Stosh

[SR540Beaver]

It is overkill. That being said, if he wants to spend the $70 for a handheld model and donate it to the troop, accept it. You have a piece of battery powered equipment that will easily fit in the troop first aid kit and your worry wart is silenced. Since he is in a hotel room, he'll never know whether or not you used it.

 

In these parts where thunderstorms and tornados are common occurrences, we have usually had to take cover from horizontal rain before lightning is anywhere close.

[Spiney Norman]

I am an ASM in Eagle90's troop and he isn't giving you all the whole story.

 

If it were just the lightning detector we would probably do just what SR540 suggested and accept it and be done with the issue. This fellow thinks we need to go beyond the BSA required training for severe weather identification. He now has another helicopter Dad all in a tizzy. Now it is being suggested that we have disaster drills on every campout plus extra ones above and beyond the required drills that our summer camp holds. I'm all for keepin' the kids safe but there is a point when you have to realise everything has a risk and you can't protect yourself from everything.

 

 

[GernBlansten]

A cheap AM transistor radio is a great lightning detector. Just tune to a non-broadcasting freq and when you hear static, you have lightning.

 

But seriously, how are you going to use it? What are you going to do if you detect lightning? Aside from getting off the lake in canoes or getting down below tree line on a mountain, what is the response? Also, if you are in either of those positions in conditions that produce lightning, you need to take action anyways, before lightning is present.

 

I just don't see the practical application of such a device.

[scoutldr]

Just explain in plain language that the choppers can understand...the BSA has weather training and guidance in the G2SS. Adhering to that will be the troop's policy, thank you very much.

[SR540Beaver]

Spiney,

 

Thanks for the additional info. You know, I am one of the most easy going and non-confrontational people you will ever meet. I was thankful when caller ID came along as I was one of those people who found it hard to hang up on a telemarketer. I'll be turning 52 shortly and wisdom has come with age. Life is short. I'm a volunteer who didn't sign up for grief. I ran our new scout program for a couple of years before swapping positions with my assistant last year. I had on dad who questioned everything, was never happy, wanted special consideration for his kid, etc. I finally had enough and actually very politely told him that here was how I was going to run the program with the full support of the SM and the CC and he might want to take some time and consider if this troop was the right fit for him and his son. I told him that they were wlecome to stay, but he was the ONLY parent I had these issues with and I wasn't getting paid enough to put up with it. They stayed for a while and then went off to start their own troop. I wished them luck when they did. Seen him several times afterwards and there are no hard feelings. Common sense and following G2SS and camp guidelines will keep kids safe. Perhaps it is time to tell him to get with the program or find one more to his liking. Politely of course.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, from the NOAA Storm Center people

 

Tornado Fatalities 2008:

 

Inside Mobile Home: 56

Inside Permanent Home: 42

Inside Vehicle: 14

Inside Business Bldg: 10

Outside/Open: 3

 

TOTAL 125

 

Houses that come down around yeh and cars that get flipped are dangerous things, eh? Almost everyone gets hurt by debris. In a tornado, safest place to be is probably a ditch outside. That's why those old Kansas storm cellars like da one depicted in the Wizard of Oz were usually outdoors, eh? I thought that was an interestin' lesson from the Iowa tragedy. The buildings weren't safe.

 

Only way to satisfy these kind of helicopters is to bring in a neutral outside "expert" that will (half) satisfy 'em. You can do that in the guise of trainin' everyone on hazardous weather, includin' parents. The expert goes through everything, how things work, what yeh can do to try to be safer, and gives the straight scoop that it's just as risky to be at home. People trust "experts", eh? Plus, what it does is make things less of an "unknown" to parents, by movin' it into the realm of their personal experience, or teachin' 'em enough to understand.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

OK, I was really the duty commissioner at our Scout Reservation Cub Family overnight program. We really had a severe thunderstorm come through. Ranger got ahold of the Camp Director and PD, and we pushed the families down to the maintenance building.

 

Then we took headcount. We were 2 parent/child groups short.

 

One of the assistant rangers and I spent the next two hours in an active severe thunderstorm looking for parents/children. We were wet and tired when we were done. After the storm, we had to down some broken branches before we could let the participants back to the tentsites. I think I got to bed after 2AM.

 

BTW: The missing families? They had never checked in; our Camp Director hadn't done all his bean counting 14 hours earlier! Sigh.

 

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Severe weather happens. It's reality in Flyover Country. Take the reality, take the paranoid hoverfather and turn it into a win-win! Talk the PLC into taking Storm Spotter training. SM and ASMs take it; insist the helicopter parents do too...

 

Do a little bit of thinking ahead. Suppose a severe storm comes (they're far more likely at any one site than a twister)? Is the tentsite such that tents will be more hazard than shelter? If you decide to go to low ground, how low (flash floods are not exactly uncommon)? Where will youth and adults gather? Who has the rose for bean counting (should be PLs to SPL to SM, and a designated adult to SM).

 

BE PREPARED. A little bit of thinking ahead goes a long way. A walking PLC, where SM/SPL/PLs chalk talk what to do, goes are very long way. BTW, you just might get some kids thinking about Emergency Prep or Weather MBs.

 

Then sit back, relax, grill some chicken over the campfire while the youth members have beanieweenies, and enjoy God's good air

[Stosh]

There's a point where being safe should never be take for granted. I work as an admin asst for people in a major manufacturing operation where safety is take VERY seriously. No meeting is ever held without starting out with explanation of emergency exits and pairing up in a buddy system should there be an evacuation. Then they are told where the bathrooms are and then there is a safety tip presented. All three things happen for all meetings!

 

Are the boys trained to the area your activity is? Do they all know where the nearest haven is? are they buddied up in case of an emergency? Do all the boys know what to do when a thunderstorm approaches? Too often an occasional reference training is done annually, but is safety re-emphasized on every outing? or only when a black cloud forms on the horizon?

 

There's no such thing as being too safe and if this parent raises the awareness of the troop, maybe it's a good thing.

 

Stosh

[AnniePoo]

Tell the parent that he can bring the lightening detector along on campouts. However, he has to purchase it, and HE has to carry it around the entire time during the campout.