What would you do?

[Eagle92]

Ok this is a spin off of a thread on uniforming. My district has started three SCOUTREACH units after 10 years of trying to get any unit started in the area. When I say that the area is dirt poor with high crime and unemployment rates, I am not joking. All these units have is American flags that were donated by either the VFW or our congress critter, can't remember which. SO they have NO patrol and troop gear at all. Individuals also have no camping gear at all.

 

Now today someone at work who knows my involvement with Scouting approached me at work and wanted to know if I knew any Scouts who could use some camping gear: backpack, flashlight, sleeping bag, etc. When I told him about the SCOUTREACH program and the three new troop, he mentioned that he may be able help out, but no promises. Here's the catch: everything is government surplus. His unit has been getting new gear as they prep for deployment, so they are discarding some of the older gear.

 

My question is, should I have this guy go through the paperwork process and approvals to see if we can get the surplus gear donated to these three troop, or should we say "Thanks, but we are not suppose to use GI surplus gear?" Again what would you do?

[Beavah]

Yah, this is a no-brainer, eh?

 

Yeh do what yeh need to do to get the gear, and then yeh go well out of your way to say "thanks" and get the donor some recognition for helpin' out a program for urban youth. Scrub the BSA name from it if yeh need to avoid negative politics, even.

 

One of the headaches with Scoutreach units is that the lack of gear hampers activities, and the lack of activities hampers program and retention, eh? Generally speakin', Scoutreach neighborhoods don't have the reservoirs of either monetary resources or family time available for fundraising or even a social ethic of fundraisin' to build on. To even have a remote shot at success, they need all that resourcin' provided, especially at the beginning.

 

Go for it!

 

Beavah

 

[shortridge]

Sorry for the interruption, but I'm confused - where is it written that surplus military equipment - such as packs, sleeping bags, BDUs, belts, canteens, flashlights etc. - can't be used by Scouts?

[Eagle92]

This is coming from the cammies thread in the uniform section. There is a supposedly a memo stating that surplus equipment si a no-no. As I stated there I never heard about this in the 26 years in scouting, and that includes 5 of which spent as a DE and in national supply.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[shortridge]

Thanks - just making sure I had my sources lined up. So it goes back to the 1994 memo that Mike Walton quoted from, stating that "equipment like pistol belts, suspenders and military field gear" is not to be worn "with official Boy Scouts of America clothing or in the place of BSA uniforms and outdoor clothing."

 

First, that's such a poorly written statement, I can't even begin to analyze it. (What is "military field gear"? Does that include field gear once used, but not presently used, by the military? What is "outdoor clothing"? Does "outdoor clothing" only include "BSA ... outdoor clothing"?)

 

Second, since it's not codified in any of the handbooks or manuals given to volunteers who run the program, I imagine it was by and large ignored because of its sheer stupidity. You're in the clear. But if you really want to avoid snags and embarassment, ask your council's Scoutreach coordinator for the official OK.

 

Now, as Beavah says, grab that gear before it vanishes! :-)

[FScouter]

One can read all kinds of stuff on personal websites, troop websites, and all over the internet. Lots of it is outdated info, urban myth, this-is-what-we-do, and personal opinion loosely stated as "official". Unless it comes direct from BSA, everything else should be taken with a teaspoon of salt, this forum included.

[Stosh]

I guess I'm going to hell for this. One of my first purchases as a scout was a military trenching shovel. I have a small military pouch that has carried my first aid kit on my belt for almost 40 years now, I have a web belt that I carry a military hand ax and first aid kit. Just last camporee I slept in a military pup tent. Last time I was at winter council camp, I slept on a military surplus barracks bunk. I used mililtary OD wool blanket. When it rains, I drag out my OD poncho, so my Alice pack doesn't get wet. and my jungle boots I use for canoeing for the past 10 years might be a problem too. Hmmm, I guess I have a ton of military surplus equipment, including a half dozen duffles I use for canoeing.

 

Gee, I wished someone over the course of the past 40 years would have pointed this out to me. About half my camping inventory is military surplus. Go figure. It all works just fine and I guess I'm not in any hurry to go out and replace it.

 

Hopefully this ruling doesn't apply to Venturing too. My whole crew is 100% outfitted in military reproduction and surplus equipment.

 

I read somewhere that Baden-Powell wanted a 13th Law but dropped it for some reason, Don't be foolish. I guess in the spirit of such a thought, wouldn't it be foolish to require boys to only use BSA equipment? After all the original scout uniform was modeled after the doughboy uniform of the time period.

 

Maybe it's time to be a little more practical and not worry so much about military surplus equipment. PC isn't always practical

 

Uniform is a whole different animal. BSA 100% with maybe a necker exception. If he shows up in January with an Air Force parka on over his uniform, I can't yell at him because I'll be wearing my wool Navy pea coat over mine.

 

Stosh

[Basementdweller]

Do what you need to do provide a quality program and retain the boys... Then don't apologize if offend people. The area you describe needs scouting in the worst way. Camo second hand gear is the last thing you should worry about.

 

 

Just curious, how would you handle sleeping bags????? We have a similar situation with boys who cannot afford them, I have purchased sleeping bags and given them to the boys only for them to not bring them to the next event or their parents/siblings selling them on craiglist. I saw the ad myself after a tip from another parent. a fifty dollar sleeping bag being sold for 10 bucks on craigslist. I was pretty ticked off about it. I called and told the parent about it, and their response was well you gave it to him and we really don't have anywhere to store it. We sold candy bars and the boys used their own bags and backpacks, same deal, some used them to haul books back and forth to school.

 

I was considering purchasing them for each boy tagging them with their name for use during their tenure with our Pack and Troop. Then storing them myself. Is there anything else to consider?????????? At this point there isn't too many maybe 4 or 5 boys.

 

I am just trying to ensure a quality outdoor experience, nothing worse than being cold while your trying to sleep. I have already purchased half a dozen large duffle bags so the boys can put their clothing in those instead of carrying trash bags with their gear in it. I get the bags back before we get back to the charter org.

[John-in-KC]

Are we talking personal gear (TA-50 in Army speak), or are we talking organizaitonal gear (tents, cots, water cans, kitchen gear?).

 

The prohibition in the BSA Rules and Regulations, which derives from our Congressional Charter, is we're not the Junior Army. We're Scouts.

 

I know lots of kids who learned to camp using shelter half pup tents, back in the day.

 

One caution Much military gas powered gear (stoves, lanterns, and such) is designed to take Motor Gasoline (mogas). Dad made his Army camp stove work on white gas, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to do.

[shortridge]

John-in-KC,

 

What are you referring to as the "prohibition" in the BSA R&R? The salient point quoted in the Insignia Guide just speaks to "imitation of United States Army, Navy, or Marine Corps uniforms," not gear usage. Or is there another element in the R&R?

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Shortridge....

 

Fgoodwin's post:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=219842&p=4#id_220288

 

which in turn points to Scouting Magazine:

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0510/d-lett.html

 

which in turn cites BSA R&R, to wit:

According to the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA No. 57-492), under "Insignia, Uniforms, and Badges," Clause 4(b) states: "Imitation of United States Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of the organization's Charter."

 

Have I made sense now?

 

Stosh,

 

Like you, I use an e-tool. Most often it comes in handy moving coals around the Dutch

 

I use GI blankets, even now, and Lord knows my rain top is GI. I do maintenance work, and it withstands abuse far better than the current commercial stuff.

 

As for your re-enacting Venturing Crew, as I recall, you're not wearing current ACU or even generation past BDU. That said, I still am curious about how you get around the absolute prohibition on large bore weaponry (cannon) in G2SS.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Eagle92]

Here's the deal, I don't really know. First thing he did was offer his personal field jacket, sleeping bag, pack, etc since he's retiring next month. Then when I mentioned how we started 3 units and I can definately find the gear a home, he mentioned tents, cook gear. etc. So I am assuming a mixture of both. Although I'm not prior military, you would think that being a military historian, I would know what's unit gear and what's personal gear.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[John-in-KC]

Unit gear (tents, stoves, lanterns, kitchen gear, footlockers) can always find a home.

 

Uniforms (shirts, pants, hats, field jackets) ... there the situation gets dicey. OTOH... other uniform items (fleece jackets, polypro underwear, wool watch caps, e-tools, water bottles, boots)... they're stuff kids and adults can use.

 

As I recall, you're a former DE. Network in with folks and get their opinions as well. My thought is donate the stuff that is uniform parts and would make your units look like junior soldiers ... send it to the Salvation Army. See if they're willing to swap you for gently used blue jeans and other things boys need too.

 

My thoughts only.

[SctDad]

Eagle

 

I would say no problem. But then with some of my mroe recent comments, I am probably going to be chastised by some of the board members here.

 

Contact me off list by e-mail. I have some more information that may help you that is local. It costs, but stuff is cheap.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Again this is strictly equipment, not uniforms, except possibly boots. Somehow they came up in the conversation.