What makes a good summer camp?

[TwoXForr]

My troop travels around to different camps each year, we enjoy it, it keeps things fresh and it keeps us leaders on our toes as well. The boys decide where they want to go after we give them some options.

 

I pose this question: What makes a good Scout camp?

 

My top three answers. (and this is a work in progress is)

 

Staff-they determine the quality of instruction and overall attitude in camp.

 

Food- quality but quanity counts as well.

 

Facilities- you cannot control wheather or not you have a lake, pond, or shore front, but what can be controlled is how it is maintained.

 

Your input would be appreciated, is there something I left out, something I am wrong on please chime in.

 

 

My troops history of camps has been, Camp Rodney in Delware, Camp No Be Bos Co in NJ, Treasure Island, Firestone-Part of Ressica Falls in PA. and another camp I cannot remember the name of up around Watertown, NY. (some we have been to twice in recent history)

[Ohio_Scouter]

In addition to what you already mentioned, our guys think a flexible merit badge program (not too overly structured) is important, too. We also like to attend camps that have rifle, shotgun, and archery ranges.

[MissingArrow]

I agree the staff is a huge part. You can have a great facility, top notch supplies, but if the staff doesn't care its worthless. I worked on a camp staff for four years, and we always tried our hardest to get the staff to click and challenge each other to step it up a notch.

 

I'd say program outside of the merit badges.

- What is available for the older scouts who don't really want to earn the normal "camp" merit badges? Are their outposts, or activities geared towards them.

- Younger boy program. Every camp is required to have a "first class skills" type program however the amount of resources and organization put into it varies.

- Evening programs? Sparklers? Things like races, patrol competitions, available trainings, etc.

 

I do commend you for letting the boys pick. There seem to be quite a few Troops around here that go to different camps where the adults tell the boys where they are going.

[hot_foot_eagle]

Our own Council camp suffered from a spell of poor management several years ago. The food suffered (quantity and quality), the staff quality suffered (no esprit de corps), and the facilities suffered from penny-pinching. Not surprisingly, attendence suffered.

 

I'm happy to say that things have really turned around and summer camp is a great experience again. I've not seen a tighter group of staff than we've had for the last two or three years in particular.

 

I said all that to say this: the attitude and ability of the camp's management directly affects everything else. If you can get a report card on the management, you'll know if you have a good camp.

 

 

[eagle77]

Good question. Over the years that I have been SM and ASM I have always been in charge of the summer camp program for the boys. Though I do offer the boys a selection of camps to go to, first I sit down with the ASM's and discuss the programs offered at area and out of area camps.Then the boys will have a meeting where we show them the different camps for the up coming year. I have found that the scouts are more open to programs that vary from merit badges offered to off site type of activities. Cost is also a major player. One year I was able to take the boys down to Piedmont, NC from Bucks County, Pa and it was a whole lot cheaper then going the 15 minutes to our council camp. The other big plus was the boys getting to see scouting in another part of the country. By the end of the week they were all talking with a southern accent. More then anything the camp was big and we were not shoved into a small area, we couldn't even see the next site from our own. Another thing is merit badge mills. I have problems with these type camps and our troop tries to stay clear of them. Summer camp to me is an oppurtunity for advancement, but also more importantly some good old fun.

 

having a great staff is also important, but I have found at times some camp staffs can totally change from one year to the next. I don't know about some of you, but I really like to have a site just for out troop. We have had to share sites some years and for the most part our expierence has been on the down side. From having a para-military type group to a total street thug troop. If the boys are uncomfortable in their "home" for the week then the whole thing is ruined. Fortunatly we have a large enough group that we can find or get our own site. Also I do like it if camps would tell us that we are sharing a site before we arrive. It works better if you know up front what is going on.

 

One other thing is making sure the boys have a good time, have what is needed (water balloon launcher, etc.) I am constantly walking around and making sure the boys get what is coming to them. A good summer camp time.

[Bob White]

The only thing I would add to TwoXForr list is "an engaging program"

 

Camps can be very different in what they offer as long as what they offer intersts the scouts and enhances the Scouting experience.

[Gunny2862]

Don't forget "campy-ness" - if you can't have fun because you are too busy following the "programmed activity plan" or if there isn't fun "in" the "programmed activity plan" then where's the camp part of camp other than that you get to sleep in tents?

 

Contraption Boat races(after Commissioner safety check and with all applicable G2SS provisions)

 

Dunking booths with various combination's of Scoutmaster and/or Staff members.

 

Scout skill competitions for Camp provided prizes (1st served in the dining hall, Free drink at the concession stand, etc.)

 

Time to actually go fishing with a buddy in the lake, etc., not just to meet a requirement.

 

Troop an/or Patrol campfire AND the opportunity to participate (not just attend) in the Camp Campfire.

[TwoXForr]

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

As for facilities, Ohio Scouter mentioned Rifle, Archery and Shotgun ranges. I myself have never been to a camp that didnt have at least a rifle and archery range. (Shotgun hit or miss, pun intended)

 

Is it your experience that camps dont typically have these ranges.

[Ohio_Scouter]

TwoXForr,

 

No, not really. All summer camps we attended have some combination of BB, rifle, shotgun, and archery ranges. Our troop is just big on shooting sports, so having a shooting range is just a check-list item in case the scouts are considering a summer camp that for some unknown reason may not have ranges.

[fotoscout]

10 scouter's would probably answer this question 10 different ways. Then there are the people that go to the same camp every year, and in all likelihood would frame their answer in the context of the only camp they know of !!

 

I think staff and program hold an equal place at the top of the list. The staff has to be friendly, welcoming, and capable, from the youngest to the most senior! I've been to camps where after 3-4 days in a MB class, the scouts still don't know the councilors name. To me that's a red flag and it tells me that the councilor is not interacting with the scouts.

 

Program has to be firm and real. Don't tell me that you have this or that, then we show up and this or that isn't available. If it's advertised, it has to happen! Exciting program for the older boys is a must. We look for a camp with something special. Access to the ocean or saltwater, special staff members teaching MB's or advanced classes. One camp has an Olympic level archer doing an Archery program during the summer. Access to something special on the property or in the community is also a plus.

 

Food, I believe that good, even great camp food is possible without breaking the bank. A little TLC in the kitchen is all it needs. I expect a camp to have food that is respectful to the scouts. Slop, poorly prepared, low quality food is insulting. I don't want to go home feeling embarrassed about the food our boys ate all week. So far I have only been to one camp that left me feeling like that. A big camp in New England, with absolutely the most disgusting food day after day.

 

Facilities, everyone doesn't have the money to have great camp facilities. Many Council camps run great summer camp programs with outdated facilities. I think it's important that the facilities are safe, and that the bathrooms and showers all work. A great summer camp is not made by the facilities. Only staff and program can make a great summer camp.

[hurtonk]

My son is in his first year of boys scouts and attended an instate camp this year. He loved it and is conducting research to help his troop figure out where they would like to go next year. I agree with what everyone is saying about what makes a good summer camp. The problem we are having is how do you find out about the staff, food, and merit badge programs? Each website for each camp only tells what is offered but everyone could say what they want you to read and not the reality. Any suggestions on finding the best camps in GA, NC, AL?

[BrentAllen]

hurtonk,

There are some weeks at Woodruff (north Georgia in the foohills) that we have more Troops from Florida than we do from Georgia. We also get Troops from Louisiana, Mississippi, TN, NC. This is a big camp, with 800 - 1,200 boys per week. The staff is great, facilities are great. We bring and cook our own food, so I can't give you a first-hand opinion on the Dining Hall.

 

Archery, rifle and shotgun ranges. Whitewater rafting on the Nantahala and Ocoee (big hits with the boys). Beautiful private lake. Very cool climbing tower. Horseback riding. Lots of program, lots of activities. Big amphitheater on the lake with fun campfires. I kind of chuckled at another thread about the SM packing list, and bringing things to do in your down time. Between inspecting another site, hiking out to Davis Inn to throw tomahawks, going swimming, whitewater rafting on two rivers, taking tons of pictures, grabbing a root beer float at the Trading Post (only 1 per day) or a Kick in the Face slushie (only 1 per day), I didn't seem to have much down time. :-) That doesn't include any of the many training classes for adults that are also offered, or the High Adventure or Whitewater Adventure programs that are offered for the older boys.

 

This is a big camp, with some sites located a good distance from the Parade Ground & Dining Hall. If you are looking for a small camp experience, this isn't for you. If you are looking for a lot of activities and choices, Woodruff will give them to you.

[Lisabob]

Welcome, hurtonk.

 

Boards like this one are a good source. You might also ask around at your district's monthly Round Table meetings. Chances are good that other scouters there will have experience with a lot of camps in your area.

 

You asked about NC - my son's troop attended Camp Bonner/Pamlico Sea Base two summers ago and they had a very good time. Bonner runs a traditional BSA summer camp program for the younger fellows (and older boys who want that environment), including a good COPE program. Pamlico offers high adventure options for the troop's older boys, including Sailing School and Sea Kayak treks. We had boys do all of the above and reviews were generally quite positive. One other thing I'll say for the folks at Bonner & Pamlico was that they had a very well organized registration process (and as the paperwork person, I appreciated that a lot).

 

Hope this helps. I'm sure others here will chime in about camps in the states you mentioned too.

[Eagle92]

In reference to the OP, STAFF is what makes a good summer camp. They are the ones that run program, they are the ones that teach and set the example. And it starts from the top with the CD and PD, so that is #2 factor..

 

I did two summers at the same camp. The first summer, the CD was awesome, coming up through the ranks, leaving and coming back. he motivated and "molded" the staff. The PD was the same way and was awesome. Only problem was that the CD got a promotion and left to go out west. Although he didn't try and recruit folks, the PD did want to follow him and did. Sop the next summer, the CD was in it just to get a bonus. PD was a one year staffer, who was good the first year as a follower, but couldn't lead, mentor, and mold the staff. It got so bad the DSS sent in another DE to make sure "the staff don't kill [the CD]."

 

No in reference to my beloved Camp Bonner, the council has decided to rename the camp "Camp Boddie" Same great camp, same great staff, just we are now "officially" getting a name.

[desertrat77]

Great inputs!

 

Stuff to consider but hard to quantify: when you walk the paths, does it seem like scout camp? Is there a balance between creature comfort and a wilderness experience? Are the scouts thrilled to be part of the camp's history? Does the staff knock itself out to serve the campers? Are adult campers treated with respect by the staff? What is the scout satisfaction rating of the mess hall?

 

I know some of these questions are kinda mumbo jumbo. And in the era of summer camps striving to bring in more campers by offering a ton of MBs (the citizenship series at camp, are you kidding?), putting campers in permanent structures, etc., I know my questions may seem even more silly.

 

Scouting memories that last a lifetime are achieved by sharing outdoor experiences, and overcoming challenges (Lifesaving MB, anyone?) with your fellow scouts. The creature comforts are fine for the moment but there's little satisfaction in their memory for the long haul.