Is parent participation camping normal?

[Lisabob]

nld, it may also depend on state law, as some graduated drivers license laws limit the number of passengers, the number of teen-age passengers, or the times at which teen drivers can have passengers in their cars.

 

And personally, I'd be hopping mad if I found that an 18 year old ASM was driving my kid anywhere without my explicit permission. Sorry ASM59, I'm sure your daughter is a fine young woman and a safe driver. I'm just thinking of some fellows I've known who "graduate" out of being a scout and are suddenly an ASM by virtue of turning 18, and I wouldn't trust their prudence enough to allow them to drive my child down the street, let alone to/from a camp out.

 

Of course, going back to the original post, the above also assumes that there are enough adults in attendance that getting kids to/from camp outs is not an issue. If not, then some parents are going to have to step up and drive their kids back and forth. And I think that's a part of why parent participation has become more common - as troops have ranged further afield, the prospect of driving a couple hours each way on Friday and Sunday is less appealing than just driving and staying the weekend.

 

 

[ASM59]

Lisa...,

 

Excellent point and no offense taken. Even though it's OK by the book, I would make sure that it was OK with parents before letting their boys ride with someone that young. I think your comments make perfect sense.

 

ASM59

[Stosh]

When the laws say one thing, G2SS say the same thing and the parent doesn't agree, then the parent has the option of not letting their child ride with an 18 year-old ASM. However, it may be a good time to look into troops that do not have 18 year-old ASM's if they are all that concerned about it. The law does not differentiate between 18 and 81 when it comes to adulthood. If parents do, step up and drive or have your child take a pass on the activity.

 

Stosh

[ASM59]

Stosh,

 

I think Lisa...'s point is that she would have to know the person driving her son. She may be perfectly OK with my daugter driving her son, and I'm sure she would be if she knew her :-), but she may know something about another 18 year old that would make her nervous about that person driving her son.

 

If I had this situation in our Troop, I think I'd make every effort to accomodate the wishes of that parent and let their son ride with someone else. Now, if all the parents said this and having the 18 yr old drive is the only way for the outing to happen, then yes, I'd make an issue of another parent stepping up to the plate or the steering wheel.

 

ASM59

[Lisabob]

I completely agree jblake, and on the very rare occasion when we've been short drivers, I've offered to drive. Happily it is rare in our troop, but that's partly because a lot of parents (most of whom are also registered troop leaders of some type) go on most of our camp outs. So, going back to bulldog's original question, yep, it is pretty typical to have parents in attendance. We just try really hard to keep them from acting like, well, hover-parents when they're with us!

[ASM915]

Worst case scenario with 18y/o drivers, If you only have three drivers, and one is 18, have his vehicle sandwiched between the other two vehicles. That way he knows he has someone in from and behind watching him.

Then we have the opposite situation where the parents say it is alright for an 18y/o ASM to drive their kids around when you have an issue with his driving. This I have a real problem with.

 

When I was a young one, I switched Troops. The first campout was about an hour to an hour and a half away. I got to ride with some of the older scouts awith one of the 18 y/o brothers driving. This was in the early 70's. I don't remember if he was an ASM or just a troop member that aged out. We made it in 40 minutes, flying along between 90 and 100 MPH. The meeting place was at a ice cream stand. The adults approached me and asked how fast he was going. All I said was that sionce I was in the back seat, I couldn't be suere, but that we had been at the stand for about 25 minutes before they arrived. Needless to say, he wasn't driving after that.

 

In the 70's, I do not remember parents coming along other then the leaders. The Troop I'm involved with now, a few yaers back when we had a decent amount of boys, I do not remember parents coming to camp, unless they were involved in the committee.

[raisinemright]

This is a subject over which I think about a lot. Last year, we had a cabin campout with scouts and Webelo's. We had nearly as many parents as scouts. We also did a horrendous job on that trip with patrol method. Very difficult with 40 guys in one cabin anyway.

 

On one hand, I love that we have highly engaged parents, especially among the dad's. We also have little problem getting dad's to go along to help lead. But, on trips like this one, we had 15 dad's and 15 cars.

 

As an ASM, I've "lead" several subsequent activities. I've been known to say, "we have 8 scouts going, so we need 3 parents and two cars." I firmly believe that the fewer cars, the better trip cause the boys get to ride with each other.

[Xtreme]

So I believe that parent participation is important when it comes to making a troop work. We always need parents to get involved for campouts, fundraisers, and supporters to the boys. But I think that we also need to be aware of parents trying to "baby" their children too much. The boys need their space to grow and learn, being able to interact with the boys without Dad always being right on him. Don't get me wrong, I think it's very important that the parents are there, but they need to act more like the registered leaders and let the boys run the show. We have some great parents in our troop that come right along on campouts and participate fine with all the boys, making sure to not take away from their son's experience. I think it mainly depends on the parent, and how many scouts you have going. You wouldn't want to overload on adults if you only have a few scouts.

 

 

And in response to the 18 year old drivers...I think that also depends on the person. You cannot assume that all 18 year olds are horrible drivers or are very immature. It very much depends on what each troop specifially needs and agrees upon. Once a child has reached the age of 18, they are now an adult and many have grown up by then through many experiences and being put in real life situations on their own. Not all of course has grown up, but I think it's wonderful if an 18 year old has stepped up as a volenteer leader when in reality they don't have an obligation too. It's not like all of them would have a child in the troop. Therefore, it says a lot about their personality if they are taking a lot of their own time, between college and work, just to help out and make sure the scouting program is running good. It is wonderful that we have all of our adult leaders because without them we would fail to run smoothly. But I think we should not simply look at someone's age and think they are not capable of things, because you never know what someone can bring to the table. And they are a volenteer working to make things better, just like every other adult there.

[resqman]

We have 55-60 registered scouts in the troop. Typical campout 30-35 scouts attend. 4-5 scouts to a vehicle, and we need lots of drivers. We also have lots of registered ASM and troop committee members. We have at least two ASMs for each patrol. We have a few ASM's that are really parents that drive periodically but are not activily involved in the day to day operations. They have uniforms and have completed most if not all of the training but choose or cannot be active on a regular basis. All the active ASMs are fulled trained for thier position.

 

Occasionally we have parents who will shuttle scouts to and fro and stay the weekend. The adults eat and camp as a patrol. The parent is a guest of the adult patrol and generally sits in a chair and drinks coffee. They are encouraged to participate in the hike or activity as a set of eyes looking for safety issues. They are allowed to speak with their sons but do not sleep, eat, or otherwise get involved in patrol activities. We encourage the guests to get oversee patrols other than thier sons to limit too much "helping".

 

Generally the only time we have a request by parents to attend is just after the Webeloes join. The new parents are not yet comfortable with the idea of leaving little Johnny in the hands of probably well meaning but unknown adults in tan uniforms. New parents must pass through Parent Orientation which consists of 6-8 hours of how BSA and the troop works. Training and experience of the leaders is emphasized. But for those used to Cub Scouts with lots of parental involvement, it is a change.

[SMT224]

resqman -

 

Can you pass on any documentation regarding your "Parent Orientation"?

 

I'd be interested in what the 6-8 hours of training consists of.

 

Thanks!

[TWOMORROWS]

 

BulldogBlitz posted Friday, 9/19/2008: 7:46:46 AM Many many changes for boy scouts for me to adjust to over a 20 year absence. Is it normal to have parents (one or both) along on a camping trip who are not part of troop leadership? I don't know if it happens every camping trip in the troop I'm involved with, but it is happening this month. I can see where that would have never worked with the troop I grew up in, we all enjoyed our time away from our parents a little too much to have them stay with us in a camp.

 

Are you part of the troop leadership?

[AwHeck]

Our troop is similar to Resqman's ... a large troop requiring a lot of drivers for most campouts. We have a one day "New Scout/New Parent" Orientation on a Saturday after most of the cross-overs. The new scouts are taken through various stations (led by older scouts) and typically earn their Scout rank along with fulfilling some of the requirements for Tenderfoot... we always try to get in the first measurement for the physical fitness requirement that needs to be redone in 30 days for example. For the parents, we cover a lot of what you see in New Leaders Essentials but tailor it to specifics in our troop. We also have a Youth Protection training session, introduce them to all of the troop leadership, explain how advancement works, show them our equipment trailer, discuss what equipment should be purchased now if they don't have it and what can wait etc.

 

We follow this up with a "new scout campout" within a month. All other campouts leave on Friday evening and return on Sunday but for the New Scout Campout, the new scouts leave on Saturday morning - the instructors have often left on Friday evening to get their stuff set up in advance. When the scouts (and parents who are warmly invited) arrive at the campsite, they go through stations in their patrols. The parents are invited to set up their own tents (away from the scouts) but then they are formed into a 'patrol' of their own and they go through the stations just like their sons do. The stations typically cover the Tot'n Chip, Firem'n Chit, First Aid, as well as setting up our troop tents and how to use a stove etc. The parents like it as many are learning new skills or simply learning (from a scout) how their scouts are taught. This keeps the parents busy and reduces their opportunities to interfere with their scout's learning as well. The adults cook and eat as a patrol, usually the experienced leaders do the cooking for the adult patrol on this campout. We find this to be very effective on several levels. It provides the new parents with a view into how campouts work, they learn what their sons learn, and they see first-hand how the troop operates in the outdoors. Some parents enjoy it, register as ASMs, take the training and become active campers; others go away with a better understanding and are comfortable with waving goodbye for future camping trips.