To anyone who has ever camped at Treasure Island or is in the OA

[nldscout]

please note,

 

This is not america's oldest scout camp. There is at least one, Owasippe, that has it beat by 2 yrs.

[PhillyScout]

To nldscout. That is up for debate. there is a very good article here about it:

http://www.usscouts.org/scoutcamp/oldestcamps.asp

Treasure Island was first opened in 1911 under a different name. It has been operated as a Philadelphia Council(merged) camp continually since 1913.

 

To John:

I think that is something that definitely has to be looked into. Not only does it have the history of the OA, but there was a dig conducted on the island which unearthed artifacts I believe in the 80's. I don't have much information on that but to this day, people still stumble across arrowheads and other things around camp. It is suspected that the Lenni Lanape, at one point, used the island as either a burial ground and/or a hunting camp.

Additionally, Edward Marshall of the infamous 'walking purchase' made his home on Marshall Island (the second island that makes up the reservation that is now named after him)in the years following the purchase in an attempt to escape native americans who were angered by his involvement in the purchase.

[JerseyJohn]

I forwarded my comments to CoL Council. Given Philadelphia's history, perhaps someone who works for or on behalf of the council has knowledge iof historical preservation. The issue is keeping TI open and exploring paths to do so. Let's not muddy the thread by debating what camp was open when.

[shortridge]

Just as an observation, "America's Oldest Scout Camp" is certainly a more powerful slogan to rally the crowd around than "America's Tied-For-Second-Oldest Scout Camp, We Think."

 

I'm kind of surprised to have found no local media coverage of this. Anyone seen anything that I've missed?

[PhillyScout]

I havn't seen any coverage yet. There is however a group of us (329 right now) that are discussing a plan of action. Part of that should include media involvement. To access the discussion, you can visit www.saveti.org

 

Most of the discussion is currently housed in a social networking site group but we just established a forum in order to make our conversation more accessible. If you wanna get involved, please join us. Right now we are mostly a youth movement with limited resources.

 

www.saveti.org (standalone site)

www.savetreasureisland.info (facebook group)

[Tokala]

The OA is a very important part of my life. While it's disheartening to read about the closure of Treasure Island to camping, it makes sense to me given the financial situation and building codes/environmental situation. What makes the most sense to me is to close it and see about selling/donating it as some type of park/preserve to some organization other than BSA (deeper pockets). If people, especially OA members, still have access to visit, the only thing lost is the ability to camp there.

[OldGreyEagle]

As I have commented, I am close to Treasure Island but not in the Cradle of Liberty Council. I have heard a lot recently about Treasure Island. I have a few questions,

 

Is CoL talking about closing the Camp on Treasure Island for one season or forever?

Is CoL talking about selling the property?

Is Col talking about closing the Camp and then allowing camping in TI as a primative site?

 

I have heard all three and other versions since Friday

[scoutmomma]

My understanding is that the only decision that has been made is that Cradle of Liberty Council's executive committee has voted not to open Treasure Island for camping in 2009. Period. There has been no decision at this time about TI's long-term future, including selling it/keeping it/executing a conservation easement/etc.

 

The camping committee has requested input, presumably for ideas about what to do next, and apparently will be making another report to the executive committee in the spring. I would hazard a guess that if CoL were to sell it, it would not be to a developer, as there are too many insurance/permit/environmental issues to deal with to make that a viable option. Aside from which, there are two islands, one in Pennsylvania & one in New Jersey -- which, of course, doubles the bureaucracy and complicates everything times two. The National Historic Landmark status idea is interesting; I have no idea if CoL has looked at that option. That's not a quick process, though. But I would imagine CoL would do whatever it could to preserve the property as a wilderness. Over the past five years, CoL has executed conservation easements to preserve some 4,000 acres at Resica Falls Scout Reservation: http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080627/NEWS/806270352.

 

To JohnInKC's question about whether CoL could use it as a wilderness camping experience (pack it in/pack it out), it sounds like a possibility, other than the portapotties. Pumping out sewage apparently has been one of the problematic issues.

[JerseyJohn]

Here is more detailed information

 

Click here for the full CoL camping committee report - 11 page PDF

 

John

[Daveeby]

I just became aware of the T.I. situation. I wrote the article on the oldest camps a number of years ago that some of you are referencing. In my estimation Owassipe (1911) is the oldest BSA camp in the country followed by T.I. and Camp Teetonkah (in Michigan), both dating to 1913 as far as being local council summer camps. As far as I know, Owasippe, or rather the disposition of it by the Chicago Council is still mired in legal issues. The third of the three oldest camps, Teetonkah, was on the sale block a number of years ago after a council merger. The local folks in Jackson Michigan did the impossible and raised $1 million to save it. Their efforts were extraordinary to say the least. A handful of local Scouters raised it all locally without asking for donations from around the country. I believe that Teetonkah is exempt from any future sales because of an agreement that was signed. Not sure how the T.I. situation will play out but I have to add to the dialog that there are a number of Scout buildings that are on the National Register of Historic Places with three of them being at Camp Manatoc near Akron, Ohio. Being on the National Register does not prevent the owner of any property from selling it or doing what they wish with it. I have learned that from working on such status for another camp. I hope that the island will continue to be a Scout property.

 

Dave

[kgram1]

I live at the Jersey Shore where the potential for flooding is always there. We build on pilings above the flood waters. The main problem is not the flood but limitations due to land mass for a profitable camp. There are much better resources and staff at Scout camps near by. Only Councils that break away from the old ways, come to our camp and we will improve it and enhance it, will survive. Spend money to improve your camp and program and you will enjoy the benifits. If you build it they will come. TI has been run down for years.

[PhillyScout]

kgram1: Treasure Island has been operational for 95 years. Just because the buildings are old doesn't make it "run down". In fact, the director of camping commented on the good condition of the island earlier this month. Land mass limitations have not prevented it from being profitable in the past either. Marshall (Eagle) island was already being utilized in the camp program and could be further used to implement new program features.

 

I dunno how you can back up or refute a claim that one staff is better than another, but I can tell you this. The staff at TI is rooted in a tradition of putting together a good program run by a dedicated, enthusiastic staff that are proud of their camp.

 

Treasure Island isn't a fancy place with flush toilets or an olympic pool and it doesn't offer the accessibility to drive up to your camp site or program areas. Even if you could, you wouldn't have to because of the great natural layout of the camp. These things shouldn't be important in scouting anyway. Treasure Island represents everything that scouting is, has always been, and should continue to be.

[eagle77]

Phillyscout,

I am from the old Philadelphia Council. While a scout (70's) TI was closed for what we were told was regrowth. What do you think was one of the major reasons for the merger with Valley Forge Council? Low membership in the city and the TI money pit. I did get to spend some weekends there though. Have you read the council's report? New enviromental rules among many others just don't make it feasible to keep the camp open. Many of the things that you mentioned like getting to your campsite, flushey's, etc. are what todays scout leaders are looking for. Many scout leaders today are not looking for a challenging outdoor type program. Like it or not simply getting on the island can be a real headache. I have known many who have camped and staffed TI. Good group of staff year after year, but what good is great staff with an opsolete camp.

 

Let COL council put all the added money into Resica and Hart where they can serve more scouts then they can on the island. I hate to see it go, but that is one of the down sides of progress.

[Padilan]

I can't believe they may close Treasure Island.....

I know it's not the best camp, but it's like one of most talked about summer camp!

Maybe they should have a really big fundraiser to spruce up the facility?

And maybe the OA could help out, knowing it's their founding place.