How to React?

[Chippewa29]

I'm sure many of you will smile when you read this, because I'm sure you've dealt with it before. It is kind of funny, but at the same time, it is a semi-serious issue that I'm going to have to deal with.

 

At our troop meeting last night, our Scouts were out in the field behind the church playing a game toward the end of the meeting. I was hearing lots of laughter when all of a sudden, I hear someone screaming like his leg was chopped off. All of a sudden, I see our challenge Scout running toward me with crying and screaming (my four year old niece doesn't cry that much when she gets hurt and I wouldn't describe her as tough at all). Apparently, while playing the game, he had collided with another Scout (the other Scout told me a few minutes later).

 

When I stopped him and asked what was wrong, he said someone hit him in the eye. I didn't see any blood, so I took him inside and had one of the moms (an RN) check his eye out. She couldn't figure out which eye it was (basically, he wasn't hurt). After checking it out some, she said he was fine and didn't even think he got poked in the eye.

 

Ten minutes later, we had our closing ceremony and he refused to take part, saying his eye hurt too bad. Fortunately, the other kids just ignored him. The Scout who collided with him felt bad and I reassured this Scout that he hadn't done anything wrong (the kid doesn't have a mean bone in his body).

 

Knowing this challenge Scout's history (he does this about 2-3 times a month and has never come close to even requiring a band aid), I wonder how I should deal with him when he does this (it seems like he just wants attention). Of course, I'll be on high alert every time to make sure he actually isn't hurt. However, once I confirm that he isn't hurt, how do I treat him? My instinct (especially after so many times) is to tell him to stop crying and acting like a baby (I have not done this). Some kids you can do that with, while I know that others need to be babied a little bit. This kid is going to be 13 in a few months. I was almost embarrassed not only by the kids howling, but also how he pouted about for the next fifteen minutes until he left. I didn't get a chance to talk to his mom when she came to pick him up, but I know I should probably do that.

 

Any suggestions?

[k9gold-scout]

Dose your troop have the optional accident insurance (this is available with your registration packet)? If so, send the scout with his parent to the hospital to seek treatment for his injury. Insist that he goes and explain to the parent that they would be reinversed for any cost not paid by their health insurance. If they do take the time to see the doctor, the paperwork will elimate this problem. My son brodke his arm at a troop touch football game and again at summer camp he broke his foot playing capture the flag. Both times the insurance paid all the bill not covered by my insurance.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Refresh me Chippewa, is this the full blown ADD scout? The one we discussed in "when to advance?" if so typically ADD kids are 2-3 years behind age group in maturity, so while he may be chronologically 13 in a few months, he may behave more like 10-11. Calling him a baby or anything else close wont help. ADD kids also have very poor social skills and will not be embarrassed by being called a babby or any other thing. My guess is that he receives so many taunts from his school mates yours will be lost in the mix.

 

I think you did the right thing, continue to check out each of his "injury" complaints, we all know you have to in case some day something actually does hurt him.

 

Praise him when he does well, correct him when he goes awry and "try" not to let his actions slow down your meetings. When injured perhaps you could assign an assitant scoutmaster to tend to him and have it rotate, once he learns the scoutmaster is not going to jump when he cries, his injury rate may go down. Always tell his parents when an "injury" happens in the off chance it is real and something occurs later that day/evening.

 

Recognize he will have good days and bad, good months and bad ones. His scouting career will always be punctuated by such incidents although they should decline as he gets older. Remember, this is one Boy who needs scouting, hang in there, do all you can to help him, we are behind you!

[sctmom]

This is a tough one. Some kids are hypersensitive -- physically and emotionally. These are usually the ones with other behaviors that present challenges to adults. These are the kids who complain about tags in their shirts, or the socks are on the wrong feet.

 

My son tends to overreact with just me around. I usually calmly tell him that if he can't walk or see or whatever, that we should head to the hospital immediately. If he is seriously injured he will go, otherwise he will decide may it's not THAT bad. Luckily he doesn't pull these stunts much anymore at 10 years old, and never has done it much in front of other kids.

 

But that could backfire if the kid is REALLY begging for attention.

 

The only thing I can say is to keep everyone as calm as possible. Send the other scouts back to what they are doing so this one gets no special attention from them. Maybe, he will soon learn that no one wants to hear this and he is getting left out of the fun.

 

[Chippewa29]

OGE-

 

Yes, it is the one and same. I'm glad I don't let my instinct take over at times, as I know that calling him a baby isn't the right thing to do. I think my real question is that I don't think he should be babied all the time, but what do you say to a kid like that?

 

The other Scouts are tired of his act and basically ignore him (the game continued on even after he started crying), but fortunately don't pick on him or say anything to him.

 

In regards to your comment that ADD kids are often 2-3 years behind in maturity: I wish we were that lucky. I'd say this kid is probably more like a eight or nine year old.

 

Does the kid want attention? Absolutely yes. His parents are good people that work normal hours (40 hours a week basically) and spend a lot of time with him and his brother (family vacations, nightly help with homework, day trips to museums, etc.), so I know he isn't lacking from attention at home. I'm wondering if maybe he gets too much attention at home and school (he belongs to both the special ed and gifted programs at his school) so he doesn't know how to function if he isn't the center of attention. His parents are always quick to praise him when he accomplishes something (he always tells them immediately when he does something, whether they are in the next room helping out at the meeting or come to pick him up).

 

Myself and the two older Scouts that work with him a lot make sure we praise him when does good things, even if it is just retrieving something from the other room or putting a chair away (we've discussed this and decided we needed to give him attention for the good things to make sure he didn't do bad things to get attention).

 

I think our challenge Scout is constantly wanting people to tell him how wonderful he is. At our meeting last night, we had a group of eight Webelos visiting on a recruiting trip. The first thing out challenge Scout did when he came into the room and saw me talking to them was to go up to one of the Webelos, look at his colors with the activity badges, and say "when I was a Webelo, I got more activity badges than you." This is very typical behavior for this Scout. Fortunately, one of the older Scouts discretely asked him to help out setting up something and got him out of there before he got a chance to prove his superiority to all of the Webelos present.

 

I'll probably call his parents tonight to see how they react when he gets "hurt". I may find that it is different than when he is at Scouts.

 

I just had something come to me. Please tell me if this makes sense. When our challenge Scout joined us almost two years ago, a big reason his parents liked our troop was because we only had three Scouts at the time and he could get a lot of attention they felt was needed. He was basically the "new" Scout for six months until we had a few more join and was still seen by most everyone as the new Scout in the troop even today. Could he see these new Webelos as a threat to his attention and put on his act last night so he could be the center of attention for everyone?

[yarrow]

We had a girl scout with a similar problem. The assistant leader did the nurturing, concerned part took the scout to the corner or ajoining room (open doors of course and said that her injury required that she rest and that she rejoin the group when she was "recovered". In these situations there were not any actual injuries. The parents were informed on picking up the scout that she had been injured and that she needed to be checked and watched and that unfortunately she had missed much of the campout or meeting and they were given a list of badge requirements and activities to complete if she was interested. After a while the scout figured out that if she howled she got only some of the attention she wanted. She got adult concern and a chance to rest by herself.......not much fun. It stopped.

[OldGreyEagle]

Seeing his status in the group could cause more outbursts certainly. And I know what you mean about the kids getting tired of his behavior. We have a scout who is 13, if you told him you would give him a million dollars if he would stand in a 3 foot circle for 5 minutes, he would try, but it would neer happen. He couldnt stand in the circle for 5 minutes if you had an ice cream cone as the reward and he could see the cone. The other kids are adapting, they know he is like that and they continue on, best thing for both of them.

 

Is he on any medication? Has it been checked? Our Pediatrician Committee Chair says getting the drug level right is more art than science and may be a long process.

 

Dont look forward to the day when he "snaps to" and "buckles down" its not going to happen. Work with what you got.

[Dedicated Dad]

he does this about 2-3 times a month Boy, that sounds like a lot of disruption, more than enough to adversely effect the other kids in the troop. I would pow-wow with his parents first to see if there could be any behavior modification from home. Next, I would console him each and every time and then set him down in a restrictive/non-punishment time-out until the activities are over. If there is no behavior change after he makes the connection of over-reactive behavior to the restriction then I would give him alternative activities, basket weaving, leatherwork etc.

[Chippewa29]

DedDad-

 

Yes, it is 2-3 times a month. I don't think it's something he plans, but he seizes many opportunities to bring attention to himself. If it isn't an "injury" (which is the 2-3 times a month), then we'll be in the middle of a skill session or planning and he'll just spout off (more than loud enough for everyone to hear) something about himself and doesn't stop until he's finished. I've found that if you let him spout for about 1-1.5 minutes and then continue on like nothing happened, that usually satisfies him for about 10 minutes or so (enough time for us to move onto the next activity).

 

On the other extreme, he tends to isolate himself a lot. Our church has hundreds of books on tables in the basement where we meet (they kind of operate as a used book store as a fundraiser). This kid is a bookworm that every week has to be taken away from the book tables. He'll spend an entire meeting there if we let him. There have been times when we've called for him to rejoin the group after wandering off and he just ignores us. We let him do it for the most part, as we don't want to neglect the other Scouts that are paying attention and trying to get things done. The only problem is that he whines when he is the only one not getting his book signed off for an activity. Fortunately, his parents know the act and have told him many times that if he wants to get things done, he has to pay attention and stay with the group.

 

Therefore, he is almost always either interrupting or isolating himself, with very few times when he is doing neither. I like the idea of a restrictive non-punishment time out. That way, he can sit by himself and "heal" We would just have to make sure he didn't go and hit the book table for the rest of the meeting (I could picture him walking though the door at the beginning of a meeting, tripping, and then limping to the book table and saying he needed to heal while reaching for a book).

 

By the way, I do appreciate everyone's feedback on this. I don't have other adult leaders I can really discuss this with (our previous SM thinks I should have never let him join the troop and wouldn't have a problem with me pushing him out), so it really helps to get some different perspectives.

[eisely]

I like the idea of taking the kid to the emergency room if all the out of pockets are covered. Obviously this is something the parents have to buy into. But it might make a difference in his subsequent behavior.

 

We too have a very intelligent scout with a variety of problems, including ADD. He too will talk on forever. He doesn't fake injuries, but we have learned to ignore his chatter, unless it has something to do with the subject at hand. When he realizes he is being ignored he shuts up and moves on.

[Chippewa29]

eisley-

 

Do you want to trade? I'l throw in a first round draft pick as well. Our Scout just talks louder if he thinks we are ignoring him. His first act when he enters the meeting room (if he is on time, which is a 50/50 chance) is to come up to me and tell me how wonderful he is. Of course, unless I'm in the middle of talking to someone (which is often), I'll tell him "That's wonderful, good for you" or something similar.

 

If I am speaking to someone or if he comes in during the opening ceremony (not unusual), then he usually will cut right in with the wonderful news about himself. His parents have been working with him to try and get him to understand that he shouldn't interrupt people while they are in a conversation, but it is something he was allowed to get away with for years and doesn't want to have to change.

 

I'm really hoping that we'll be laughing about this down the road after he really grows up, earns his Eagle, and spends a couple of years working really well with the younger Scouts. For now, we'll just keep grinning and bear it. As challenging as this kid can be, I'd rather put up with him than a kid we had a few years back who threatened the other Scouts with his knife and ended up in the juvenile home.

[eisely]

Nope.

[sctmom]

A lot of information I have read about people with ADD talks about how they don't pick up on social "clues", such as when they are talking too much or too loud. You can even sit them down and tell them flat out what is wrong, they will say they understand and will do better next time. But it just doesn't "stick". It's just part of who they are.

One of our Cub Scouts has an older brother who is in Boy Scouts this year. The older kid is sweet as can be and completely clueless about social manners. His parents aren't that way and neither is his younger brother or sister, so it's not lack of home teaching. When he's around, we just have to remind him to not interrupt, wait until others have finished, not be so loud. My son sometimes has to be reminded. He doesn't take it personally, he knows he gets out of control and his "brain gets all scrambled up" sometimes. He needs the reminders from others because his brain isn't sending it to him like most people.

 

One recommendation that is used on younger kids with ADHD to keep them "busy" is to attach a large button or other item to their belt loop with a string. Then they can play with it all they want. They need tactical (physical) stimulation. Where fidgeting drives me nuts, it helps an ADHD person focus on the task at hand. Their minds do 2 things at once, wanted or not. Make sure that what he has to fiddle with is not dangerous and will not create more of a distraction. Maybe a koosh ball would be good, but not if he throws things. I would not recommended silly putty because that bounces too easy. Maybe some type of play-dough type stuff. My son can do things with his hands and listen very effectively. It may LOOK like he is not paying attention but when I stop and ask him questions, he knows the answers to what I'm reading.

 

[Chippewa29]

Another wrinkle has developed in the situation. Unfortunately, I couldn't get ahold of the challenge Scout's parents over the weekend, so I didn't get to discuss the situation with them. Our challenge Scout was sick and didn't attend the meeting on Monday night, but his dad stopped by to take care of a couple of things. While a group of us adults were sitting around talking, one of them asked me how we looked on getting new Webelos crossing over. I told them we'll get anywhere from 3-16 over the next couple of months. We went on to talk about how I wanted to grow the troop over the next few years to about forty Scouts (what I feel is the ideal troop size) and pointed out (to all the adults present) some of the advantages of having a "larger" troop would have for the kids. The dad of our challenge Scout said he didn't want the troop to get any larger than 10-12 kids because he thought his son wouldn't get enough attention if the troop were larger. I managed to sidestep the question a little bit and reiterated a couple of the points, but he had a worried look on his face.

 

I know that one of the reasons why they chose our troop initially was because we were so small at the time. However, I think this Scout is too used to getting so much attention. His parents are great about spending time with him and his brother. He is in all special classes at school, so he gets special attention. For the first two years of his Scout career, he has been in a very small troop where he has been able to get a lot of individual attention (sometimes at the expense of the other Scouts). They've said that they want him to be normal and a productive, healthy, and happy adult. At what point are they going to stop expecting special attention for their son and not try to structure his life so he doesn't have to become independent?

[OldGreyEagle]

Interesting situation...

 

You know my position on ADD kids, they need extra help at times and patience. Given that, you certainly cant be expected to have your troop revolve around one child. The time is now for the family to decide what they want for their scout. If the Dad doesnt think his kid will get enough attention, then he might want to attend a few events. The growth and development of the troop, especially to the benefit of the other scouts should not be compromised.

 

You may want to do a sit down with the family and point out your concerns as the troop grows, less attention may be paid to their son. See what develops.

 

I am all for giving the kid every benefit you can, but at some time, his behavior must change.