bad Philmont experiences?

[LongHaul]

I have never even heard of an incident where a Scout/Scouter had a "problem" with a bear or mountain lion where the Scout/Scouter hadn't BROKEN the rules and cautions. You attract them and they will come, you do what your told and they will go else where. When I said GOOD boots I didn't mean expensive. My last 2 treks were as an adult and I wore $50 KMart work boots. I wore $3.99 for 3 pair mens nylon dress socks as liners and $3.99 for 3 pair polyester socks over them. This works just fine FOR ME. GOOD means what your feet like. You don't need major ankle support if you have normal ankles because your not usually going to be on broken ground. The trails are well used. You should not be carrying that "heavy"of a  pack where major ankle support is needed. What do your feet feel comfortable in? Walk 10 miles with about a 40# pack in those shoes and see how your feet feel. $200 hiking boots that make your feet hurt by sundown are not the answer. Choose your foot wear wisely, fit your pack to your body, and don't take all the "junk" you normally want on a camp out.

 LongHaul

[Gold Winger]

"$200 hiking boots that make your feet hurt by sundown are not the answer."

 

If they make your feet hurt they probably don't fit properly. Sheesh! You make it sound like we're womenfolk who buy shoes because they're cute and don't care if they fit.

 

You were lucky with your $50 work boots. One of our crew had skimped on boots and bought a pair at Target or Kohls and wore them on the training hikes with no problem. Two days into Philmont, the sole of one came completely off. We were able to have base camp send us a new pair but until they reached us, he was being held together with duct tape.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

 

"You make it sound like we're womenfolk who buy shoes because they're cute and don't care if they fit. "

 

OK, I'm slowly backing away from GW to make sure I don't get hit in the crossfire.

 

SA

 

[Gold Winger]

Honestly, have you ever known a man to intentionally buy uncomfortable shoes because they look good? I haven't.

 

However, I have known more than a few women who done silly things like but a pair of size 7s when they really wear a 7.5 because they can squeeze into them and they look cute. Beauty knows no pain.

 

Women do many incomprehensible things like walk around nearly nekkid and then get upset when menfolk look at them. Of course, they get equally upset if the menfolk don't look at them.

 

I'd got on but Dave Barry would get ticked at me for intruding on his realm.

 

 

Standing by for flames.

 

Okay, in fairness, men will continue to wear clothes that are two sizes too small rather than admit that they've gained weight (just look around at roundtable). "Yep, I still fit a size large" as the buttons threaten to explode and the seat of the pants stretches to the point that it is nearly transparent.

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[Ohio_Scouter]

"Okay, in fairness, men will continue to wear clothes that are two sizes too small rather than admit that they've gained weight (just look around at roundtable). "Yep, I still fit a size large" as the buttons threaten to explode and the seat of the pants stretches to the point that it is nearly transparent."

 

 

Yeah, but never shoes. Philmont is serious business .

[LongHaul]

Sorry GW everyone isn't as all knowing as you are. They may think that wearing a pair of shoes every day with all due confort will mean that after walking up and down, that is shifting from pressure on the heal to pressure on the toe, for 6 hours with 35# to 40# on your back will be just as easy. I was not "lucky" in my choice of shoes, I was "prepared". I knew 5 years in advance that I would be taking my sons to Philmont so I deliberaly set aside my Red Wings and began "testing" boots that fit my feet as work boots. Up and down back and forth all day long driving a truck loading and unloading. I found boots at KMart that were comfortable, they didn't stand up to my Red Wings for durability but then my Red Wings were not designed for trail hiking either. As for your "bad" experience where were you with your wisdom before the boys left home? You couldn't tell cheap from inexpensive? This is why I will not take a youth to Philmont that has not gone on a week long backpacking trip with the troop before hand. Picking up a pack on the first day is one thing, doing it again after three days is another and yet again after 8 days. Same with shoes, you don't know how they will feel "after" until you use them to get to "after".

 LongHaul

[Gold Winger]

" As for your "bad" experience where were you with your wisdom before the boys left home? You couldn't tell cheap from inexpensive?"

 

Wasn't my job. I was neither the lead adivsor, the SM, nor the boy's father.

 

I still say that it was luck.

[GernBlansten]

Advisor on our trek had a $200 pair of REI boots come apart mid trek. So just because you put out a lot of coin, doesn't mean your boots will hold up. Of course, when he got back, REI replaced them no questions asked.

[Gold Winger]

" So just because you put out a lot of coin, doesn't mean your boots will hold up."

 

However, it is more likely that they will.

 

I started out with a pair of inexpensive but comfortable boots. After a couple of hikes on the AT, I relegated them to "hanging out and looking cool duty." Having done little more than wearing them to work and to hang out, after a year, they're shot. The soles have held up but they're dead.

 

When I reffed basketball, the conventional wisdom was that a pair of shoes lasted a season. You know what, they were right. The uppers might look great, the soles were perfect since they never saw anything other than a court. But, the shoes were shot. Didn't matter if you bought Nike, New Balance or Converse. One season and they were dead and relegated to "emergency back-up shoes."

[GernBlansten]

You'll get no argument from me GW on quality boots.

I had a pair of Lowa I got 20 years ago. I've climbed 23 14nrs with them. Easily put over 1000 miles on 'em. They fit me like they were painted on. But alas, the goat skin liners had worn through and the soles had very little tread left. I bought a new pair last year for the trek. The new pair are very nice and comfortable, but they aren't my old favorite. I just can't part with them. I should probably get them bronzed and hang them from my truck mirror.

[Gonzo1]

I'm glad your son had nice jambo and sea base experiences.

 

The only way to prepare for Philmont is to go backbacking. Several small trips with varying altitude changes will help. As you're in Indy, try going to the hilly areas of So. Illinois and parts of Kentucky. Maybe so Indiana too.

 

After several 2 night outings, try 3 or 4 night trips. As you son gains experience, he'll figure out what he needs and doesn't need and he'll have fun!

 

[CalicoPenn]

"Honestly, have you ever known a man to intentionally buy uncomfortable shoes because they look good? I haven't."

 

Then you never go to country/western bars in big cities up north where men show up wearing cowboy boots bought because they look really good and leave limping at the end of the night because the boots are just plain uncomfortable.

 

I hiked the AT through Maine and New Hampshire, considered some of the roughest country of the AT by many, for 3 weeks one summer between the end of my summer job and the beginning of school wearing 6 month old Hi Tec Sierra Lites purchased for $39, that already had a number of mountain climbs on them before we started, including three hikes up Katahdin before the 4th hike up Katahdin to start the jaunt on the AT. Those boots held up just fine and lasted another 5 months before I had to buy a new pair (and only because one of the eyelets gave way). When I went to get new boots, I didn't even have to try any on - just told the guy I needed a pair of Hi Tec Sierra Lites, size 10 1/2. I wore my boots as my everyday footwear - so that 12 months of wear was wearing them all day every day.

 

Its not the cost of the boots - Expensive boots can fail just as well and spectacularly as cheap boots. There are makers of inexpensive boots that still make quality boots. There are makers of expensive boots that make garbage.

 

I do recommend getting "light weight" boots. When heading to Philmont, its time to set aside the Red Wings, or any other boot heavy on the leather, and go with the synthetics. 4 pounds of boot will feel like 30 pounds at the end of a long day.

 

While I wouldn't do a mountain trail, no matter how well traveled and "packed down" with Chuck Taylors (they really have no traction), there would be nothing wrong with going with an ankle height boot that looks more like a trail running shoe.

 

Calico

[Gold Winger]

"Then you never go to country/western bars in big cities up north . . ."

 

You're right. I haven't been in a country western bar since 1984 and that was only because the beer was free (am I allowed to say "beer"). I hadn't considered stupid guys trying to pretend that they're something that they're not. I wonder if cowboys intentionally buy uncomfortable boots?

[kraut-60]

I was an advisor to a crew at Philmont in 2006 (731-F). Our ranger told us that a crew he picked up earlier that summer were actually removing the stoves,water purifier/filter unit and other camping gear from its original packaging during the "junk on the bunk" equipment shake-down prior to leaving base camp for their trek. He related that they had a real tought time for the 3 days he had to spend with them to ensure they could make the trek.

 

He told me they aventually caught on to how to use their gear, but that they just "survived" their trek. Apparently, they neither prepared their gear and neglected doing shake-down or practice hikes...I would think this crew had what this thread title is.

 

I am returning to Philmont in 2009 and we are already planning our gear upgrades and mapping out our practice and get-in-shape hikes...you can never be over-prepared for Philmont. Practice,plan and practice some more...Be Prepared...and enjoy your trek.

[Gold Winger]

Our ranger told us that a crew he picked up earlier that summer were actually removing the stoves,water purifier/filter unit and other camping gear from its original packaging during the "junk on the bunk"

 

That never ceases to amaze me. What if you get out there and find that your stove is missing a part? Or it is defective? Sure you can survive but you wind up carrying what is essentially a rock. Makes you wonder if they live the same way in the real world.