Any pointers for canoeing?

[WildernesStudent]

So yeahwere going canoeingany tips?

 

Basic plan of action:

 

Rent canoe,

Canoe on river,

And have fun!

 

I want to also add that there are a couple people in our group who have canoed before on several occasions, but there are also several of us who havent and arewell for lack of a better word accident-prevention challenged lol so I thought I would go a head and ask for some pointers.

 

I have gone a few times (few meaning twicebut it sounded better) but it was a free for all with no supervision or instruction. I dont think it will be to hard to actually get the boat where we want to goprovided we remember which is our left and which our rightI think our problem might be staying dry and/or getting the canoe and us out of the water after we fall in (I have decided to just accept the fate that we most likely will end up in the waterhaving me in a canoe alone it is guaranteed, not to mention some of my friends who actually make me look graceful).

 

Anyways, thanks!

 

Oh! And cause I am just psyched I AM TOTALLY DONE WITH MIDTERMS STARTING TWO HOURS AGO!!! (Sorry, had to get that out of my system)

 

So on that noteI am going to go take a nap.

 

 

[Gunny2862]

My earlier message to you about about someone not going on the trip knowing your whereabouts and return time applies.

 

Do you intend to wear the life vests?

 

Can everyone swim? Will you match strong swimmers with weak swimmers? No non-swimmers should go(IMHO) but if you as a non-BSA group take them you may want to put them with the very strongest swimmers and ensure that they at least always have their vests on when on the water.

 

Ensure you take the canoe out of the water WELL BEFORE you go up to a low water bridge!!! Do NOT float up to them. The hydrodynamic pressure of the flow under the bridge through the under water pipes can EASILY DROWN you or even FOLD/CRUSH your boat. A rather silly friend of mine lost a boat this way - then he had to pay the costs for the county workers to divert the flow so they could remove the wreckage from the pipes.

 

Remember to secure any thing that might fall out of the boat (coolers; trash after lunch; etc.; and to have a stuff bag where you can keep sunscreen and other things you might want to have handy. If DNR - Department of Natural resources in this area can trace trash or other "left behind" items to you that should have stayed in your canoe you can look at pretty hefty fines pretty quickly. At least around here.

 

Remember to plan a drop off and pick up plan, it's rather nonplussing to arrive at your take out point and realize you are going to have to hike/hitchhike 15+ miles back to the cars.

[Ohio_Scouter]

Like I told you about backpacking, go to your local scout shop and purchase the canoeing merit badge pamphlet and read it. It has a lot of great tips on canoeing, and it's well worth the $3.00 investment.

 

Also, if you think you'll be falling into the water in wintertime, make sure you understand hypothermia and associated first aid--also in the merit badge pamphlet.

 

Also, read the Guide to Safe Scouting on Aquatics Safety/Canoeing.

 

Have fun and be safe.

[Stosh]

"BSA Safety Afloat #3. You must be classified as a "swimmer" to participate in Scout activity afloat. (A Scout who has not passed the swimmer test may ride as a passenger in a rowboat or motorboat with an adult classified as a swimmer, or in a canoe, raft, or sailboat with an adult certified as a lifeguard or lifesaver by a recognized agency.)"

 

If one plans on anything other than lake canoeing, they need to be prepared to canoe BEFORE they take to the river. Rivers are NOT the place to learn canoeing merit badges. Lifejackets are expected to be worn all the time, each canoe has an extra paddle and throwable vest/cushion with rope.

 

Things to watch out for - wingdams, partially submerged rocks that can turn a canoe in the rapids, low hanging trees and limbs. A boy wedged between a low branch and canoe can be crushed if the current is strong enough. I have experienced canoes jammed on rocks and under trees that it has taken 3-4 adults to wrestle free. I have also seen canoes wrapped around trees never to be used again. If the boys sense a tipping, jump upstream, never downstream where the canoe can go over them, or capsize and trap. A river's current is the most dangerous thing and it is with you the whole trip. Add to it rocks, trees, etc. it doubles the danger.

 

Whitewater canoeing is not for the faint-hearted, nor inexperienced. If one must use a certain river where there are fast moving waters, it is best to portage the inexperienced boys around those spots.

 

An adult at the beginning and a second one at the end of every rapids in case the boys have difficulty. The best canoeist at the beginning and the strongest swimmer on the end.

 

Make sure everything is tied in and waterproofed if needed.

 

If one is kayaking, it would be wise to also wear a helmet.

 

From your comments:

"So yeahwere going canoeingany tips?

 

Basic plan of action:

 

Rent canoe,

Canoe on river,

And have fun! "

 

It sounds like a recipe for disaster. It might be ok for adults, but not for boys.

 

Basic plan of action:

Get a rope

Find a rock cliff,

and have fun!

 

Sorry, but if you don't have at least 3/4th of your crew seriously trained in canoeing, I wouldn't be taking a bunch a boys out on the river. That's just my opinion, but it's expressed after 15 years of whitewater canoeing.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[GernBlansten]

Keep the pointy end forward. Either one.

[baden]

Do not stand up in the canoe. Do not lean over the gunwale. As the rodeo cowboys say, "Keep 'yer mind in the middle". When you swamp the canoe, laugh and get on with it. Have fun. Be safe. PFD's for everyone all the time.

[kenk]

Most important .... Pointy end goes in front!!

 

Very good advice given already.

 

Assume you'll swamp. Pack and dress as if you will.

 

Swivel your hips to ride out the side-to-side rolling. Don't fight it.

[WildernesStudent]

"Basic plan of action:

Get a rope

Find a rock cliff,

and have fun!" jblake47

 

So I laughed when I read this because I know people who have actually done that and have watched people do it too (some on youtube...if you ever wants some laughs try watching some of these activities on there lol Never underestimate the stupidity of American youth)

 

Ok...let me see... the river. This river is very wide and very deep but also very calm...believe me I have no desire to go on rapids! We will have life jackets because we get them free when renting the canoe...now whether people will wear them or not is debatable, though I am sure we will make a rule about it. I know most of the people in the group are strong swimmers but I hardly think that matters when you are going to be in the middle of a river and would have to swim several yards to get out (I know I was never able to do more then three laps around an Olympic sized pool and that was when the water was warm) What exactly is the BSA swimming test, the requirements that is? Um...hypothermia...it's rather warm down here at the moment but the water probably still is cold (something I hadn't considered so thanks for bringing it up) I suppose I will find out how cold it really is when I go to our 'end of midterms polar dip' tomorrow (last year it was so cold that those who jumped in completely lost their breath and for that matter the capability to breath while in the water...hopefully it will be warmer this year). Um...since we will probably flip the canoe we will probably just all wear your average run of the mill swimsuits with gym shorts and t-shirt over them...and (here I go sounding stupid again) which end is the pointy end? The canoes we are renting have two pointy ends...also they are very very very very light I could probably drag one around myself (and I have the upper body strength of a kitten...I paddled for 10 minutes and couldn't use my one arm for two days) It looks like three people can fit in it but apparently five can, would more weight make it easier or harder to flip? Anyways, thanks for the tips again...if it's to cold we probably will wait on it a few more weeks.

 

 

 

Oh here is a link to a video...ignore the idiots in the video and tell me what you think of the river Does it look ok for first time canoers? thanks again!

 

 

(if the link is being dumb and doesn't appear above simply go to youtube and type in "Dave E. Back Flip on Broken Bridges" (and for the record I think what they're doing is stupid as heck) (This message has been edited by WildernesStudent)

[Lisabob]

Since you're talking about college-age people (right, not your middle school group?) I'll just add that drinking while on the river is probably not the smartest thing to do, even less so if you don't know the river real well, expect to fall in, have a group of inexperienced canoeists, and the water is cold. And even, even less so if you have to drive anywhere afterward. I know some people who seem to think that the only way to canoe is drunker than a skunk, but I confess I don't get that mentality and wouldn't want to go with those folks.

 

Also, if you think you're likely to get soaked, some dry clothes in a dry bag (or at least in a ziploc), or in your car waiting at the take-out point may be very, very welcome. I don't know how warm it is where you are but even in the mid 60s, which feels like summer right now while you're dry, a bit of a breeze and wet cotton clothes can make you pretty miserable.

 

From the Youtube video I think it is pretty hard to tell what the river is like. Rivers often look more placid than they actually are. You might be better off stopping by a local outdoor store, or an outdoor club, or the place where you'll rent the canoes, and asking their advice. If there are places to be extra careful or straight-out avoid, they'll probably know. Sometimes you can find river reports online from area clubs and enthusiasts too. I know when I did a little (fairly basic) canoeing in OH last summer, I found not only some useful reports, but also a state DNR guide to where the small dams are located. That was very helpful and also explained why even very small dams can be dangerous in some circumstances (the canoeing MB book does too, I'm pretty sure).

 

Have fun and stay safe!

[GernBlansten]

Two words.

J Stroke

Draw Stroke.

Ok three words and a letter.

Google them. Learn them. Live them. Love them.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm.... Where do yeh live exactly? And what river?

 

We Scoutin' types would want to know that each member of the group was experienced enough (as a swimmer, as a paddler, and as a group member) to undertake the trip for the conditions.

 

But first, yeh need to know the conditions.

 

Rivers in the spring can be very different from rivers in da lazy dog days of summer, eh? Amount of water flowin' down 'em changes them a lot. You should have someone with you who has paddled the river before at the current water level, and knows the river hazards and skill needed to paddle it. And yeh should be alert for trees and other hazards that have been "added" to a river during the winter.

 

Then go back up to paragraph 2 .

 

As college buddies and novices, you're gonna get wet. Water temperature plus air temperature bein' less than 120 will make yeh awfully cold and uncomfortable and at least mildly hypothermic if yeh aren't wearin' some good, non-cotton insulating layers and wind shells. Especially if yeh don't have good sunshine and yeh have some wind. Add alcohol and it gets worse - more hypothermia, and more frequent flips. Smaller, leaner folks will chill a lot faster than the big "well padded" guys, eh? So plan for that in terms of clothing. Lots of water and lots of food too, eh? Yeh need hydration and energy to stay warm. Think snacks all day - don't wait for the diner at the takeout. Headaches mean drink more water, flippin' or gettin' tangled more often than you were at the start means more food and water.

 

If you've got relatively inexperienced paddlers, try to match folks by weight. If partners are badly mismatched by weight, it changes da trim and usually takes more experience to handle.

 

Oh, yah, and da pointy end that goes forward is the one that has the seat closer to the middle (more room for legs in front of yeh). Back of a canoe has the seat closer to the end (more leverage for steerin'). Two people per canoe, 3 max with da laziest bum sittin' in the middle and most experienced in the back.

 

Finally, if it looks too scary or if someone who knows what they're doin' tells you you're nuts, avoid testosterone poisoning. Portage (carry) your canoe around the scary part or go to the pub instead. It is always honorable to walk a section of river, and always better to live to canoe another day.

 

Be safe out there, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

I guess I'm sensitized to outings involving water because I've had a couple of friends and a relative killed on rivers at different times. And I spent most of my career on rivers and lakes watching fools do stupid things...and mostly surviving. Mostly.

Your basic plan, if that really is all there is to it, seems to indicate a death wish. But you're young and haven't reproduced yet so there is time for natural selection to act and cleanse us of your genome.

 

You still haven't mentioned which river or described the kind of stream it will be. You haven't mentioned any ability to 'read' the water - and in flowing water you will need to know more than "J" and "Draw" strokes...you'll need to know "sweeps", "ferries", "sculling", "pry strokes", "ruddering" (bow and stern), and more. You haven't mentioned protective gear or flotation. You haven't mentioned a safety line or spare paddles. You haven't mentioned emergency equipment. Or how to pack your way out when you get stranded after dark. This isn't merely hiking off trail - water is much less caring than a predator, it is far more powerful when it is moving, and you most definitely will not live if it clutches you for long. It loves to eat the arrogant.

 

Moreover, whitewater is quite different from a lazy meandering river...and that lazy river can be just as deadly, just for different reasons.

So my advice....get serious first and then make some reasonable plans and preparations.

[DanKroh]

One suggestion:

 

If you can, have at least one person come along who is an experienced kayaker. Kayaks are much more maneuverable than canoes, and they can be a great asset in rescuing boys and boats and other gear after a canoe flips.

 

When my son's troop goes canoeing, my friend and I bring our kayaks. We also find them useful for scouting the river ahead, since we can more easily paddle back to the group against the current than a canoe can.

 

One time on a river in Maine, this same friend and I ended up rescuing a canoe of a high school group that happened to be going down the same river. It was slack water, but the current was just strong enough that it started to take the canoe while the kids were recovering from their dunking. We got ahead of the canoe and actually used our kayaks to push it back upstream. Inexperienced paddlers (which all the high school kids were) would not have been able to do that with canoes.

[OneHour]

All of the above are sound pointers; however, one important lesson that I learned from my training with Sam Houston Area Council canoe training course ...

 

... when all else fails, "it's always your canoe buddy's fault!"

 

Have fun!

 

PFDs, PFDs, PFDs, and PFDs.

 

[Bob White]

Early spring when many rivers are running high, fast, and frigid do to melt off is no time for the untrained to be on them in canoes.

 

My tip would be to get lessons. Start your canoe experience in small bodies of water with little current and qualified instruction.

Build up you level of adventure as your skills and experience increase.

 

There were 99 canoe related fatalities in 2006, operator error was the prime cause, 75% of those who died were not wearing PFDs.

 

Don't go if you don't know what you are doing.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)