So, how would you go "off trailing"?

[SctDad]

I could only wish to go ouut in the woods in a place like Alaska. I guess I am in the wrong part of the country. Some of the things that you are talking about sound great.

 

I have to agree with you AK. Sounds like you have a great understanding of how to enjoy the outdoors and still leave no trace. I think your understanding is what the LNT program is supposed to be about.

[Eagledad]

Im an off trailer. Not just in hiking or hunting, but I think of life in general. Im disappointed the political correctness bled all over the thread, but not surprised. Off trailing is action of individuality. Our society today defines individuality as becoming part of the group.

 

I dont think there are that many people who feel an impulse to go off trail. Or maybe they are just too afraid. Going off trailing is searching out a moment of personal fulfillment without being selfish. Not going against the flow, but instead finding a place of no resistance in the flow. It is a place that for the moment feels like where we are meant to be.

 

More often then not, going off trail is spontaneous because a moment of gratifying solitude is hard to plan. And you dont have to be alone to find that kind of solitude. I found myself putting down the fishing pole at the Fish Camp on a Philmont trek just so I could sit and watch the scouts fish. Along with scouts quiet in their task, I was surrounded only by the breeze in the trees, the trickling of the creek and an eagle circling above.

 

Of course the choice to put down the pole is not the same off trail adventure as turning left to find yourself in the center of a meadow sitting between two mountains. But the inspiration is the same.

 

Im not sure I can explain it where most people could understand. There are two many rules and in our lives that seems to erode our patience to listen.

 

 

Barry

 

[packsaddle]

Gold Winger, Yes I've done a bit. I like to go alone and bad weather is a plus but not necessary. Here in the southern Appalachians it's hard to find many places so I prefer the West. I love the Cascades especially the Southern Cascades. Most of the time no one knows my plans (I make them up on the fly) or even where I am. I'm old, heavily insured, will written, and won't be missed much. And a violent anonymous death is far preferable to the ones I've witnessed so far.

 

But Yellowstone and the nearby Beartooths are great, partly because of the mountains and partly because of the animals...and the trail I mentioned is one of my favorites. What am I saying, they're all favorites. But I've done everything I described and more, including great grey owls, peregrine falcons, eagles, big horn sheep, rocky mountain goats really up close, and yes, the bears, even grizzlies.

 

However, before you get to that trailhead on the road from the NE entrance if you stop and take the trail up to Trout Lake and then keep on going off trail up the mountain, you can find everything much closer to the highway. A couple of years ago I found a kill and the bear wallow less than a mile from Trout Lake. So I kept going up the hill and perched myself on an outcrop to watch through the binoculars.

The kill stayed quiet but way down in the valley I could see tourists parking and walking around the parking area. Mostly peeing in the grass or dumping trash. A few would walk up to Trout Lake and then quickly back down to the warmth of their cars. But just above the forest edge above the lake I could also see a bear watching the tourists. Black bear, probably hoping for some of that garbage or maybe an infant (..the dingos got my baby...").

 

From Specimen Ridge, I can watch, way across the valley to the other side, the tourists in their giganticly monstrous motor homes with their tripds and spotting scopes, hoping to spot the wolves on a kill. They'll park and squat on about an acre with their vehicle and just sit there as if watching television. They'll maybe walk 50 feet and probably think they've had an experience.

 

But I CAN see the wolves just down the hill a bit, with their cubs on what's left of an elk calf - they don't last long. The wind will be whistling, cold, past my face. I'll be wet from snow and I know I need to get moving to stay warm. The air will be cold and dry and the only sounds I hear are the trees clawing at the sky and the wolves finishing their feast. Then I'll turn to head into the woods to see what I can find. And I'll look across at those tourists one last time, making sure not to make eye contact...I wouldn't want to, you know, become one of them.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with EagleDad. Da question for me is when would I not go off-trail? And I confess to havin' done plenty of off-trail hikin', huntin', snowshoein' and the like solo. Know your abilities, know the risks, accept da risks with da beauty and adventure.

 

I wonder, is paddling or sailing by definition off-trail?

 

My question would be how yeh could possibly teach scouts and venturers navigation and compass skills without going off trail? Do yeh just have 'em pretend to be navigatin' or what?

 

Beavah

 

[WildernesStudent]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Im an off trailer. Not just in hiking or hunting, but I think of life in general. Im disappointed the political correctness bled all over the thread, but not surprised. Off trailing is action of individuality. Our society today defines individuality as becoming part of the group.

 

I dont think there are that many people who feel an impulse to go off trail. Or maybe they are just too afraid. Going off trailing is searching out a moment of personal fulfillment without being selfish. Not going against the flow, but instead finding a place of no resistance in the flow. It is a place that for the moment feels like where we are meant to be.

 

More often then not, going off trail is spontaneous because a moment of gratifying solitude is hard to plan. And you dont have to be alone to find that kind of solitude. I found myself putting down the fishing pole at the Fish Camp on a Philmont trek just so I could sit and watch the scouts fish. Along with scouts quiet in their task, I was surrounded only by the breeze in the trees, the trickling of the creek and an eagle circling above.

 

Of course the choice to put down the pole is not the same off trail adventure as turning left to find yourself in the center of a meadow sitting between two mountains. But the inspiration is the same.

 

Im not sure I can explain it where most people could understand. There are two many rules and in our lives that seems to erode our patience to listen."

 

 

Barry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thank you very much for your post...you describe it perfectly.

 

It really is hard to describe what its like. Just the other day I went hiking with a small group of friends and walked away for a little time to myselfnot far from where they were I found this spot by the creek completely covered from above from the branches of trees. It was only about twenty yards away from them but it was so peaceful. I closed my eyes, and just sat there. There was the sound of the creek, and the wind blowing through the trees around me, the birds singing, the cool breeze, the smell of damp earth, the sun shining off of the intricate spider webs which (amazingly) didnt break in the breeze. its an incredible feeling.

 

What I love about the woods is that once I enter the safety of it human time slows down and can even cease to exist. You will never know what true peace or quiet is until youve taken a walk in the woods, I am utterly convinced! I never realized how loud our world was. even when we think its quiet.

 

Going to the woods is going home.

-John Muir

 

 

(If you aren't familiar with John Muir you should look him up...

especially if you've been to Yosmite National Park).

[OldGreyEagle]

WildernesStudent, you confuse me

 

First you want to know how to prepare a group of people with zero outdoor skills and then you want to extoll the virtures of going off trail. Is this for your group who you are convinced cant hike out of a blind alley or for yourself?

 

If you want to go off trail, have a good time. Don't go single file, think of a single plant, it can recover from being stepped on once most likely but trod on 8 times greatly reduces the chances. I never saw LNT as too many rules or as a blight on my enjoyment of nature, rather as insurance my grandchild and greats will have something to see. Different views for sure and all are valid, just some dont make sense (is that an oxymoron or what?)

[WildernesStudent]

Sorry for the confusion,

 

Yes, I do want to know how to prepare a group (with very little outdoor skills) to go hiking. I need basic advice on what to take and how to do it etc

 

However, I do happen to have other, more competent, friends and we make a point of going off trailing (seriously, well sayhey on Saturday lets go off trailing) or usually as a general rule when I go with them I know we will probably end up going off the path.

 

I wasnt originally going to actually post this question because I know there are different opinions and I didnt want it turning into controversial issue (which is why I purposely didnt name the topic what do you think of off trailing).

 

Dont get me wrong, as I said I respect the BSA a lot (I was very resentful from ages 10-12 that I hadnt been born a boy and therefore couldnt join loleven made my dad call to make absolutely sure they didnt have other girls in the troop.) but I know rules differ when youre the designated leader and are in charge/responsible for a group (especially when you belong to/represent an organization) then if you are one of say 8 college students going hiking over the weekend.

 

I agree with a lot of rules the BSA has but how many of them are rules because of the fact that it is a group being lead by a leader, there is always the possibility of portraying the organization in a bad light (Boy Scouts Deface Nature), or because of liability (Tragic Accident Results in Billion Dollar Lawsuit Against The Boy Scouts of America...)? Dont get me wrong, rules are good, most of them are just plane logic to prevent accidents (If someone falls of a 12 ft log it really wont matter how they got into the situation, why they did it or should they have been up there in the first place, whatever the reasons you still have a life or death situation on your hands).

 

Which is why I posted this topic (though i suppose I could have been more spacific) hypothetically, if you were going off trailing with a group of friends what would you take that would differ then on a normal (normal being on a trail) hike?

 

Thanks again!

I hope this made sense...I kinda had to cut it short because if I don't run down to dinnenr I will probably get rained on (I lost my umbrella and water-proof coat...welcome to my world)

[OldGreyEagle]

The daughter of the troops scoutmaster went to Princeton, as a freshman she had an opportunity to do an event to meet other students who would be freshmen at Princeton, she joined a group that did a portion of the Applachian trails in Conn. She had never camped before and loved it. By the time she was a Senior, she was leading such treks. The name of the Organization that lead the trips is called Outdoor Action, I dont know if its a national organization or not, but if you are in or close to a University setting they may have a similar program.

 

Its hard to give advice long distance, have fun whatever you do

[packsaddle]

Beavah, "Da question for me is when would I not go off-trail?"

Answer: when you're in a canoe or kayak on a whitewater stream and would rather not have a really, REALLY bumpy ride.

[Oak Tree]

Outdoor Action is specifically a Princeton group. They've produced a great book for leading backpacking treks, titled The Backpacker's Field Manual. But most every university that I've seen has some type of outdoor club for people who enjoy doing this type of activity.

[Gunny2862]

WildernesStudent, in response to your most recent question.

 

Nothing.

 

Everything I would take on a regular hike I would take with me off- trailing.

The only exception I can think of might be a rope, harness (or another rope to make a harness out of), carabiner, figure eight and an ascender or two and that would be on the off chance that someone "discovered" a hole or ledge you couldn't recover them from any other way. That would be crew gear and split up among the ones going into the woods that trip. And only carried if you are in a part of the country that has those features. Of course if the one with the rope is the one who falls you still have issues... so they should trail the others.

[Beavah]

if you were going off trailing with a group of friends what would you take that would differ then on a normal (normal being on a trail) hike?

 

What Gunny said. Actually, for me personally, I take less stuff with me OT. Hikin' on my own, I'm pretty lightweight with my gear.

 

When I'm with kids or inexperienced folk, though, I bring more stuff. Bigger first aid kit, backups and repair kits. Add to the redundancy for dealin' with problems. I think groups with inexperienced folk should mostly stick to the trails. Each person in a group should be able to self-rescue in the event they get separated (why we teach "what to do when lost" to a Tenderfoot), and doin' that from the bush is probably beyond a novice's skill. So I probably carry more gear on-trail than off.

 

Beavah

 

[MarkS]

WildernessStudent said, "'Leave no trace' I would define it..."

 

No need to. The Bureau of Land Managment (http://www.blm.gov/education/lnt/) and Center for Outdoor Ethics (http://www.lnt.org/), among others, have already defined the principles of Leave No Trace for us.

 

Which say, among other things...

 

"Camp and Travel on Durable Surfaces... In high-use areas, campers should concentrate activity. Use trails whenever possible and select camp sites so heavily used that further damage is unlikely. In areas of very little or no use, campers should spread out. Take different paths when hiking off trail to avoid creating new trails that cause erosion. When camping, disperse tents and cooking equipment and move camp daily to avoid creating permanent-looking camp sites."

 

Durable surfaces tend to be rock, sand, gravel, ice, snow, and dry grasses. Avoid trampling sparse vegetation and vegetation on slopes. Avoid water puddles and mud holes when off-trail. Plow thru them when on-trail (rather than going around and making the trail wider). Don't take shortcuts across switchbacks, etc...

 

Of course, this is just preaching to the choir, isn't it?