When dads hog the Philmont trek roster...

[Pack212Scouter]

Oak Tree, while 2-deep is *not* required for transportation, it is obviously prefered. There is always the very real possibility of the two vehicles getting or being separated, in which case it is much prefered to have two adults with each group. I always prefer to err on the side of caution. Also as has been mentioned here there should be at least three adults for the actual outing in case of injury, etc occurring.

[Eagledad]

I have found that when the adults dreams of adventure is bigger then the scouts, the scouts usually get the short end of the stick.

 

Now of course we dont know all sides of the story, but something doesnt feel right about all this. I have developed and trained several Philmont and High Adventure Crews and a lot of adults tend to take a lot of the fun out of the experience. Adult/scout relations on the trails are a major problem. Philmont attempted to relieve some of the stress by using a Crew Chaplin to give the scouts an avenue to vent out their frustrations (Thorns and Roses).

 

By the way, one way to satisfy the third adult concern is asking an 18 year old to go. Philmont accepts them as adults and they usually add more fun for the boys side.

 

Barry

 

[Mike F]

Barry,

Good points!

According to the leaders at Philmont, most crews (about 90%) are held up by weaker adults, not scouts. Adults can be worse than a boy when repeatedly pushed to their limit. No one should underestimate the effects of cumulative fatigue and stress. I've seen it tear crews apart.

BTW - my backup adult this summer is a 19-yr old Eagle from our troop. He would have been prime, but couldn't commit due to college and summer job, and we needed to make a decision a few months ago. Now it sounds like he's ready to go if we need him. (The guys are all hoping one of us old dudes drops out - and that's likely.)

[kahits]

Thank you, Mike.. that is some great, experienced advice. My nephew has still not responded back to my offer, which may mean he isn't going to take it, but I am still hopeful.

 

As to your questions, he is 14, but is almost 6 foot tall. The other boys who are going are 2-3 more 14 year olds and the rest are 15 to 16, and one who is 17. As for their physical abiliies, I would say they are all in about the same boat. Nobody over weight, but other then playing sports (my nephew plays soccer and basketball), they will need to train to properly prepare for the trek. They are just now starting their first backpack training, this past weekend, which seems a little late to be doing that, especially considering they are at 1,300 feet in elevation. He is a very smart kid, who plays in a symphony (percussion), and does things like chess club, as well. He never misses a campout, which is why it has been difficult for his mom (but she will never admit that.. tough lady.). They did 2 summer camp sessions last summer, which she finally stayed home for the 2nd one, which was in Minnesota.

 

I give her alot of credit for supporting him, in all this. If you knew my brother, you would know why she has been doing this. Having a 6' 10", Sioux, Desert Storm Marine Captain as an ASM would be hard to ignore. I will say that my nephew has not had many male role models, outside of the troop, between his younger sister, his mother, and her mother. They do what they can, but we don't see enough of him or them, with us being 1,000 miles apart. I, obviously, have no idea what their intentions for a Philmont trek are going to be, but they should have kept the two boys in the training, at least as alternates. It just speaks to their inexperience as Scoutmasters to make this so cut and dried. If anything changes, it would not be acceptable to bring one of these boys back in, without having trained with the group.

[Greg Nelson]

They haven't started training yet? And they aren't training backups?

 

You should be thankful your nephew is missing this trip.

 

[Ohio_Scouter]

Greg,

 

I agree! If they have just begun their training program, I'll lay odds that some of them won't be in good enough shape to finish the trek.

[Eagledad]

>>I agree! If they have just begun their training program, I'll lay odds that some of them won't be in good enough shape to finish the trek.

[Herms]

As a parent, as long as the minimum boy/adult ratio is met, I would DEMAND my boys right to replace an adult on a trek. As a leader I would I would talk to the other adults (they usually have the toughest times on the Philmont trails!!) about stepping aside for the boys.

[Ohio_Scouter]

You are correct, Barry. I was referring especially to the adults, but I believe that an out-of-shape scout may also fail to complete a trek, though much less likely.

[Eagledad]

>>but I believe that an out-of-shape scout may also fail to complete a trek.