What Do You Adults Do When Camping With A Troop?

[Joni4TA]

Does your Troop operate in a Patrol method?

 

Do the adults have an "adult patrol" on the campout or are you just an extension of the boys' patrols? If your adults on the campouts do NOT operate as their own self-sufficient patrol, why not?

 

Do you have the boys do all the cooking/cleaning for your adults as well? If so, what do the adults do when the boys are cooking and cleaning?

 

How do the boys know when it's time to cook or clean? Do they utilize Patrol Duty Rosters? Or does the SPL have to stay on top of the boys he's assigned to the cooking/cleaning duty?

 

I am trying to see what others do.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[LongHaul]

Our Adults eat with the patrols and the scouts in charge of washing dishes wash the adult dishes also. The SPL does not assign duty assignments the PL does. While the boys are cooking and cleaning the adults do what they do most of the rest of the time which is stay out of the way. When asked for help or guidance an adult will do what he/she can but for the most part we ask that the adults leave the boys alone. Adults are there for safety, and discipline. Proper planning and preparation usually takes care of safety and supporting the decisions of the SPL and PLs addresses the discipline.

LongHaul

[Lisabob]

Mostly our adults stay reasonably far away from the boys on a camp out. The PLs (not SPL, definitely not adults) decide who is responsible for cleaning, cooking, etc. although I'm not sure duty rosters are as well-utilized as they might be. The SPL will sometimes remind them that "lunch needs to be between X1 and X2 times because Y is happening after that."

 

The adults do act as their own quasi-patrol (they cook, clean, and tent on their own) so they're busy doing their own thing at the same time as patrols are doing their thing. Adults, particularly the ASMs that serve as patrol advisors, do tend to keep an eye and ear out for what the boys are up to, but for the most part they do not intervene directly unless it is really necessary for safety issues, or unless asked by the PL or SPL.

[kenk]

In the last year my son's troop (I'm an ASM) has started separating the youth from the adults when camping. Us adult form the OWL patrol (Older Wiser Leaders or Old, Weak, & Lame, depending on your point of view) and we cook and clean separately from the patrols. We've been calling it "white-line" camping, where the youth stay on one side of the line, and the adults stay on the other - except for activities out of camp. The only person who can move across the line - except for emergencies - is the SPL. We encourage the SPL and ASPL to eat with a patrol.

 

During activities the OWL patrol is either helping to teach, tagging along, or hanging back and watching. A good camp chair is very important.

 

This spring we had 11 new Scouts join our troop, nearly doubling the size of the troop. At the last PLC it was decided to split into two new-Scout patrols, one regular patrol (6,7, & 8th graders), and a venture patrol for high school boys. It seems to be working very well. The venture patrol will have a few troop guides that will help the new-Scout patrol, and the SPL and ASPL will likely come from & eat with the venture patrol.

 

I'm doing my best to push the adult out of the equation as much as possible and let the SPL, ASPL, PLC, and venture patrol do as much as possible. The SM is starting to see the benefits and going along with it - mostly. It will take time.

[Ohio_Scouter]

Our Troop tries to operate under the Patrol method. Our adults don't have a separate adult patrol. Most of them are Assistant Scoutmasters or Committee Members who help the scout patrols only if needed. Our adults are usually rigging climbing ropes and acting as belayers for rapellers. Or, they are hiking, camping, climbing, canoeing, white-water rafting, shooting, etc., with the rest of the Troop. Mostly, the adults insure that safety is being observed at all times.

 

The patrols do all of the cooking. The SPL develops a duty roster for the patrols, but when it comes to clean-up, everybody washes their own personal gear. Whoever cooks, also acts as clean-up for Troop gear. When the patrols are cleaning up, the adults are usually helping prepare for the remaining activities of the day. If no other activities, they are usually relaxing by the campfire and practicing their skits, if appropriate.

 

The SPL notifies the patrols when it's time to cook or clean. And, yes, the SPL normally has to stay on top of the boys assigned to the cooking/cleaning duty because many of them, especially the younger scouts, are slackers and haven't been properly "trained".

 

This modus operandi seems to work well for us.

 

[Joni4TA]

For those that said, "The SPL does not assign duty assignments the PL does" and "The PLs (not SPL, definitely not adults) decide who is responsible for cleaning, cooking, etc.", what if the PLs are not present on a campout.... say it's only 5 boys, so in effect there IS NO Patrol.... all you have is an SPL and some random kids from 2 different patrols?

 

Thanks!

[Lisabob]

Joni, that rarely happens for us (we have 65 boys in the troop right now). But if the PL won't be there, he has an APL who is expected to serve in his place. If neither of them will be there, the patrol typically decides who will be "acting PL" prior to the camp out. I guess if we had just the SPL and 3-5 random boys then it depends - are any of these boys from the same patrol? If so, let them act as a patrol even though they're small, and put the others together in a temp. patrol so no boy is by himself. If none of the boys in attendance are from the same patrol then I suppose it might make sense to treat them all as one patrol for the weekend, with the SPL acting as PL if none of the actual PLs or APLs were there. And later I'd want to ask why attendance was so low.

 

One of my pet peeves though, is when a patrol has 3 or 4 boys attending and another patrol has 3 or 4 boys attending, and some adult decides that for the sake of convenience, they should be combined for the weekend. Yes, it is more convenient in terms of hauling gear and buying/cooking food. But it is NOT more convenient for the inter-personal skills that the boys are learning. It places much greater stresses on the PL who now has to navigate completely different group dynamic. And it breaks down a sense of patrol identity. Yes, it is more convenient for the ADULTS, but not necessarily for the BOYS.

[EagleBeaver]

We use the Patrol method.

 

Adults make, buy, and prepare their meals separately from the scouts. Except at summer camp where adults are guests of patrols and they go to a different patrol each meal.

 

Scouts do their own cooking and cleaning, as do the adults.

 

The patrol that planned the campout creates an agenda. Meal times are on the agenda so patrols cook and clean in time for the next activitiey - theoretically. :-) Duty rosters are a great way for a PL to fairly distribute tasks to his patrolmates. As a single-aged patrol matures and gets used to working together the duty roster becomes less needed.

 

If a patrol doesn't finish their meal in time for the next activity, they either miss the activity or put off their clean-up until later. It's up to them.

[Stosh]

Our adults eat with the troop officers. Duties are rotated in the group, sometimes an adult cooks, sometimes a boy does.

 

Stosh

[AnneinMpls]

Hi Joni

A couple things jump out at me...

First off, the troop's small size is currently working against you. Your troop might actually only be one real patrol.

There's a couple different ways to work with this, but all depends on *recruiting* to solve this over the longterm.

 

Choice A, keep the current 2(?) patrols, stinky attendance and all. Get some patrol competition going that will stimulate better attendance. This may smack too much of just maintaining the status quo and could fall flat.

 

Choice B, reorganize the troop into one patrol, and treat it as a Green Bar Patrol, or also called a Pine Tree Patrol. The idea here is that the SM acts as the PL *with the stated intention* that he is training the Pine Tree Patrol to become the PLC once the troop grows. Also with the Pine Tree Patrol, you continue to keep eyes on the prize - divide up, do some competition, etc. If you can time this about right...and a lot of crossovers are happening soonish, you can then turn these newly trained up boys to head up two new patrols. Leave the foibles behind, and start fresh!

 

Another possible thing to try, just like patrol leadership is rotated frequently in a New Scout Patrol, you can suggest having PLs rotate the SPL position frequently - now, it won't be full-blown SPL responsibilities like you would have with an experienced boy who would take on the job for 6 months or a year, but you definitely want the SPL to be the one up in front, opening the meetings, moving the troop meeting along, closing it out, etc.

 

It might be that your SM is trying to do one of these, but possibly he's just not real clear on which or what it is he's trying. Don't fault him for trying - it's just a bad place to be to have a tiny troop. More boys and it will be easier to move the adults back a bit. You might suggest setting max. limits on how many adults are camping with them.

 

The biggie is recruiting! Must have more boys!

Blue Skies!

Anne in Mpls

[ASM857]

We have 5 patrols but on most outings we only have 3 total show up so when patrols are doing menu palning we will merge and assign patrol leaders. As adults we are the lounge lizards, we supervise all activities for saftey but let the boys run things, we cook & clean are on food SPL and ASPL will eat with us if they so chose.

I hope this helps

YIS

Doug

[Joni4TA]

It depends on the planned campout. Sometimes we have 16 boys show up, and sometimes we have 4. We have 20 total youth and only 2 patrols because many don't show up.

 

There are no trained youth leaders in the Troop I serve. Our Troop does not operate via Patrol Method. SPL, ASPL, PL and APL's are elected and then not trained at all - so they have no idea what they are SUPPOSED to be doing either in meetings or on campouts.

 

For one thing, my first suggestion was to conduct JLT immediately following this month's elections.

 

Secondly, I suggested to the CC, an ASM and the SM that we adults that go on the camping trips, start our own Adult Patrol, complete with Patrol yell, flag, etc. I said that by doing this, we would be leading by example, modeling the patrol method, and in effect teaching the patrol method. I said I didn't think the boys should HAVE to be responsible to cook for us except for maybe a Saturday dinner where we all ate together.

 

The SM response was, "I don't believe that's a good idea because the less assertive boys won't be able to speak up about menus and meal times and so the boys won't get a nutritious meal in a timely manner on a campout without me riding their butts."

 

I replied that the SPL should be using a campout planner/itinerary to determine meal times, and the SPL/PL's (depending on how many show up for the campout) should be utilizing and posting the duty roster so that all the attending boys knew exactly what their jobs were on the campout. They could volunteer or be assigned at the meeting ahead of the campout or shortly before departure. But either way everyone would know what duty they were assigned to and therfore the SM would not be REQUIRED to go "ride their butts."

 

RESPONSE --- "Oh THAT'll never happen!!!!"

 

 

Enter defeatism!

[Mike F]

Joni,

From the sounds of it, your troop has some work to do. It can be done as others have noted.

 

Our patrols operate autonomously on campouts with PL, APL, or other Acting PL (as assigned by PL) in charge. Key Point we stress continuously: PLs are responsible for the success of their patrol - even when the PL is not there. If PL can't make a campout, or is coming up late, he has to make sure his replacement is ready to lead his patrol. It's not unusual to see a PL (who won't make the campout) show up at the scout hut on Fri night to make sure everything is in order.

 

If at least 2 members of a patrol are on a campout, they camp as a patrol. If we had only one, we would have him join another patrol for the weekend, but that's never happened and we've only been down to two on one campout for Fri night only.

 

SPL and ASPLs eat and tent in same area as adults to keep these senior boy leaders out of the way of PLs. (Although they do cruise the patrol areas to keep an eye on things and sample food for the campout cooking award.)

 

SPL hands out written plans for the campout to PLs and adults before we depart on Fri night. This includes times for everything, who is in charge of activities, etc. (I had to work to get this ingrained, but it's working without hassle now.)

 

Patrols always have a campout grubmaster who's in charge of buying food and serving as head cook. All patrol members support cleanup with PL knocking heads, as required. Occasionally the SPL/ASPL will pull young PL aside and recommend he get the rest of his patrol involved, but the SPL would never engage directly with patrol members unless the PL needed help.

 

Troop QM is in charge of setting up cleaning station after every meal. (Usually with some prodding by SPL/ASPL.)

 

The only time an adult would step into patrol's business would be in a critical safety situation which required immediate action.

 

As you can tell, I'm a firm believer in using the chain-of-command. Adults are discouraged from going directly to SPL with comments/recommendations/suggestions/etc. The SPL works for SM and can't cope with numerous - often conflicting - inputs. If another adult has an input, he makes it to SM, not the SPL or any other boy leader or patrol member.

 

One last thing: We never have any "parents" on campouts - only adult leaders. If we're doing things right, a casual observer shouldn't be able to tell which boy goes with which adult. There is a transition period as the new Scouts & parents come aboard every year, but that's the goal ASAP. As part of this, even for active camping parents who really want to help, we recommend they let their son attend the first 2-3 campouts on his own so he gets used to working within the patrol system. By the time dad shows up, the young scout is already well on the way to being a full-up, functioning member of his patrol. Parents are amazed at the change in a few short months.

 

Good luck!

 

mike

[Herms]

As most everyone else has said, we stay out of the way. During none activity times we will work with boys on advancement or whittle. At summer camp we have a leader assigned to the different program areas for the day to 1) question why certain boys don't show up and 2) help out the councilors. We usually have a couple leaders hang in camp to help boys with MB's (ooohh those Baskets!!!) or encourage them to CLEAN their tent.

 

We usually have our own meals as we have found that it is a good way to teach the boys to prepare GOOD meals. After they have just had one of their fast noodle or hotdog dinners and they smell our Green Chili Stew they put a little more effort in to there meals on the next campout.