Philmont trek with sleep apnea

[FScouter]

What does he do on his normal weekend backpack hikes? Philmont is no different, just a few more days.

[johnt0148]

F Scouter:

He actually hiked Philmont years ago, and has hiked many times since then. I think he became inactive and his condition worsened from just snoring to SA. He is going to hike with us next week, so we will see what happens.

john

[Ohio_Scouter]

Let us know how it goes, John. I went to Philmont with my son last year, and it was the most memorable activity of our scouting careers. I'd hate to see a guy miss a trip to Philmont with his son for any reason.

[walkman321]

I would like to add my 2 cents in the thread. I have SA. I would recommend the gentlemen to stay home on this one. I go to scout camps and on weekend outings all the time, the key is the amount of days. Battery packs (Heavy) will only last up to 2 days. Then they are almost depleted which requires a minimum charge of 8 hours. Scout camps are easy with two battery packs by rotating them to charge. With Philmount I do not see that happing. Trust me if I thought I could I would. I set back and let my oldest son go and now my youngest son is going this year, and I want to go. Nevertheless, I cannot figure out how to do it without holding up the crew. I have looked into solar, smaller batteries, smaller cpaps (which they make), but it is the batteries that hold you up because of the weight and charge time. If you sleep with a cpap at night, it is very hard to sleep without it, once you are used to it. The guy might be alright the first part of the trek but 3 days with out a good night sleep backpacking in rough terrain and then you would have big a problem Some times, you just have to know your limitations. It is about whats best for the crewHe might still be able to go and hang around base camp but not sure if that is an option.

[Basementdweller]

I have SA and have lived with it for bout 10 years now. I use a cpap machine nightly and to be real honest if I do not use it I will be a mess. Grumpy and confused is an understatement.

 

I camp with the boys and use several deep cycle battery's for week long camping with no power. The batterys weigh in the neighborhood of 40 pounds each and that is with a GoodKnight 420G which would easily fit in a backpack and is 12 volt powered. It only weighs 1.7 pounds, but the battery pack for 7 hours is 8 pounds. With a deep cycle battery I can get three nights with this particular cpap machine.

 

There are other options to fix SA, just depends on what type he has. Surgery and dental appliances may help, he just needs to talk with his doctor.

 

I camp a bunch with my machine just ask, I will try to help.

[LaGarde]

I know this is old but I am flirting with going to Philmont with my scouts and I too have Sleep Apnea.

I have been using a CPAP at camp now since 2016.  At first I brought my full size CPAP and a long extension cord.  Then I got more portable by getting a deep cell battery (not as big as a car battery) and a DC converter.  This was a pain in the ass and the battery keep loosing its charge cause I was only using it once a month.  I then tried the freedom batteries and they worked ok but, where very expensive, heavy and did not last more than 2 nights.  Still I had this large CPAP... I then decided to look at travel CPAPs which were really expensive. 

I found an article about this guy who traveled to Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa.  He laid out what he brought and for the last 3 years I now have a similar CPAP camping kit:

• Z2 Standard Travel CPAP Machine
• TalentCell Rechargeable 12V/11000mAh DC Output  Li-ion Battery Pack (lasts 2 days CPAP set at 13lbs)
• TalentCell 12V Lithium ion Battery PB120B1, Rechargeable 12800mAh Li-ion Battery Pack (lasts 3 days CPAP set at 13lbs)
• Fireproof Bag LiPo Battery Bag
• SMAKN DC-DC Power Converter 12V to 15V 5A Boost DC Power Module
• Travel Bag for Small CPAP Machine
• Mask, short tube and spare filters
• Heat Moisture Exchange Unit for CPAP Machines

My CPAP camping kit weights in at 5.31 lbs.  The 11000mAh battery lasts 3 nights and the 38400mAh lasts 2 nights.  I have been thinking of getting a solar panel to charge on hikes.  I am a big guy at 6'5" (currently 330 lbs need to get down to 265 lbs for Philmont) so an extra 5.5 lbs of weight does not kill me; sleeping with out a CPAP probably would kill me at some point.  

To go 14 days hiking I would either have to have a solar charger that could charge a battery in a day or bring a lot of batteries or a combo of both.

I have well over 150 nights camping with a CPAP with temps at night 90+ degrees to 20 degrees.  Only had two issues: battery management (not charging day before, forgetting a power cord, leaving the battery on all day, etc) and an old ResMed converter caught fire during my Ordeal.  I have not gone back packing with it yet but plan to try it out well before I get on a plane.

Goals:

• Loose approx 70 lbs
• build my endurance for the trip
• Several weekend back pack trips at some elevation (that means driving north as I live in Florida)
• Work out battery management with solar charging.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by LaGarde

[RememberSchiff]

@LaGarde sounds like a plan, no doubt you have already found this Sleep Apnea at Philmont document:

https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Sleep-Apnea-10.18.19-Version.pdf

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by RememberSchiff

[scoutldr]

Just pointing out that Old Gray Eagle (or OGE as we knew him) is no longer with us.  He died unexpectedly and prematurely. From his untreated OSA?  We'll never know.

[LaGarde]

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

@LaGarde sounds like a plan, no doubt you have already found this Sleep Apnea at Philmont document:

https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Sleep-Apnea-10.18.19-Version.pdf

 

Thanks... no I had not found the SA doc...  Good to know they have considerations for those who have SA.

[jcousino]

Not sure i am following your battery set up.  i have a 12 volt 18 amp (18,000 mamp) battery i use on one of my Ham rigs. its 1/3 the weight of  agm battery

a 100 amp hour 12 volt lithium  battery runs around $300 to $400

I also advice be careful how you transport the battery they are considered hazardous  so very tight rules about being on public  carriers ie Airplanes 

i will get back to you about finding a unit that run on 12 or 24 volts Dc directly cuts the conversion lose. i have not been in Home care respiratory in a while.

the last person also offered some helpful ideas.

good wish's for the weight reduction that will give you the best results over all .

John

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by jcousino

[lforschler]

This topic greatly interests me, and I've spent a bit of time trying to perfect my backpacking cpap setup.

I have a system that I'm testing now which works pretty well:

 

CPAP: Resmed air mini, pressure level 5

- Weight: 299g for unit, 113g for tube+mask = 412g total

Battery: INIU Power bank with USB-C PD output. Capacity is 25000mah, which equates to 92.5 Wh

- Weight: 489 g

Battery to CPAP Cable: 20V PD USB-C Power Supply for ResMed AirSense 11 Air 11 Airmini 65W 20W ResMed CPAP Charger DC Coverter Cable

This cable is amazing.... it does all of the DC step up conversion so I can run directly from battery without having to use an AC adapter. Note that your battery MUST have USB PD 20v output.

- Weight: 81g

Solar Panel: Flex Solar 20 watt

- When testing this at home, I do NOT get 20 watts output... more realistically it is 12 watts/hour

- Weight: 664 g

 

I have measured my battery usage around 5-6 watts per hour when using the above equipment. So 8 hours of sleep is at most 48 watts... So I can get about 15 hours of sleep on one battery, which is most of two nights.

With the solar panel pushing 12 watts/hour, I need 4 hours of good sun/charging for every night of sleep. This isn't possible while hiking, but is completely possible if you can set it up somewhere at camp and leave it. 

The solar panel weight is more than an extra battery.... So if you are going on a shorter trek (4 days or less), I would consider carrying an extra battery rather than a solar panel. However... having the panel also allows me to charge up other devices like headlamps, Apple Watch, cell phone etc... without worry of ever running out.

 

Renogy makes a 266 Wh battery which looks really great.  This would give over 5 days of sleep...however it is NOT approved for travel on airlines due to the capacity. I am considering buying one of these just to test out at home as it looks really cool.

 

Total weight of the battery and solar panel is 1153g or 2.5lbs. 

Total weight of CPAP, Mask, Power Adapter is 493g or 1.1lbs

Total weight for Sleep System: 1646g or 3.62lbs

 

[scoutldr]

Just a word to the wise...make SURE you will pass the medical/physical requirements for Philmont before putting down any money and making plans.  THere were horror stories here a few years ago, when Scouters showed up for check in and failed the medical check for being overweight (they do check).  Not sure what the policy is for CPAP machines but I would be surprised if they don't have one.  I have OSA too, and would never think of doing a Philmont trek.  

[Eagle_Chris]

Agree, you also should factor in :

• Philmont is strict with the height/weight guidelines and reviews upon arrival during medical re-check.
• Even though you are an adult, you are still considered a crew member - in addition to your personal gear, you will be expected to carry your share of up to 3 days of food, water, and crew gear.
• At Philmont you can be 20+ miles from base camp and the back roads are difficult to traverse in case of medical emergency.  They shut down the roads last time I was there due to the rain and mud.  You don't want to put your Crew at risk, if help can't get to you.
• I brought a solar panel to recharge my camera and smartphone, during our 2 year prep, it worked great every time.  Unfortunately when we got to Philmont, it rained for the 10 days on the trail and I didn't factor in arriving to camps late in the afternoon.