wasted food

[Bob White]

Stop giving them money for food. Let them earn their own money and buy their own food. They will soon learn an appreciation for what they are wasting.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[CalicoPenn]

Sometimes its good to have the adults eat "as guests" of the patrols. Helps to prevent just such an occurence.

 

Imagine the Scoutmaster's reaction if the menu said he was going to be eating Pancakes and Bacon and the Patrol left out the bacon? Or his reaction if the menu said he was going to be served Lasagna and was handed a hamburger instead?

 

Imagine the Patrol's embarrassment.

 

Sometimes it doesn't even have to be a full meal - for instance the lasagna. What would the Patrol do if the Scoutmaster said throughout the day he was sure looking forward to a taste of the Patrol's lasagna that night? Bet the Patrol makes the Lasagna.

 

Calico

 

 

[Ohio_Scouter]

Lisa,

 

Cut your troop's food budget. Our guys are allocated $7.00 per person, and we still have leftovers after each campout.

[Lisabob]

Our adults typically do not eat with the patrols, but instead eat (very well) with the other adults. I like the idea of the SM or another adult visiting patrols for a meal or two. I think it would go a long way toward improving both the quality of the food produced and toward leaders recognizing where more instruction is needed. I'd be happy to see the SPL and ASPL doing this too - as is, they eat with the adults most of the time. Will suggest that to the guys. I guess while I'm at it I'll suggest they have an established (written and posted!) duty roster and menu available for all to see as well. To my knowledge none of our patrols do this, and I find it to be a weakness of the program, albeit perhaps a small one. I also like the idea of teaching more cooking at troop meetings. We very rarely do this, perhaps in large part because our troop meetings are typically inside a local school where cooking options are limited. But we've done dutch ovens outdoors on occasion and could again I guess.

 

As for cutting, or cutting off, funding for food. I will say that most of the time the guys struggle to stay within their allotted budgets as is. Part of that has to do with menu choices (choco milk, ice cream, oreos, bacon AND sausage, etc.) and is something I may try to bring to the attention of our SM and ASMs again (in past it has fallen on somewhat deaf ears). But I don't think it is feasible to mandate that the boys all raise their own money for food because frankly most of their parents won't go for it and I can't make them either.

 

I kind of feel torn between being too involved as a parent on one hand, (my son is both PL and grubmaster for his patrol right now and it was a real struggle for me not to tell him point blank he needed to re-think some items on his patrol's menu when he went shopping for the food. I ended up making some suggestions which he chose not to take.) and on the other hand standing by and watching what I think are pretty low standards troop-wide for this kind of thing.

 

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions and for letting me vent a little!

 

 

[kenk]

I had to smile when I read "An ASM told him he had to add fruit to every meal." The adults need to let the Scouts do their thing and fall back to a position of a very high level guidance. Its the Scouts' troop.

 

"Stop giving them money for food. Let them earn their own money and buy their own food."

 

Bob, you are soooo right!! Now I just have to try to convince my Scoutmaster and Troop Committee that this is the correct patrol-method method. If the parents give the money then the Scouts have no personal stake in that part of the the process and the cost.

[SWScouter]

Get them away from the cars and backpacking more. The extra food and the wasted food will stop if they need to carry it around.

[scottteng]

The best I can say about the egg in a bag thing is that I ate mine. My scrambled eggs were a little runny and my bacon was burnt and stuck to the paper. If I was at a waffle house I would have sent it back was my comment to the other adults. We were trying with all of this to focus on fire cooking and to have the new kids get through 2nd class 2G without too much notice. The boys are fairly adept at stove cooking as they do more of that. There are much better meals IMHO to cook over a fire burgers, steak, sausages, and dogs come to mind.

As to the fruit thing that is a symptom of adult menu checking. The boys will survive a weekend without fruit. The reason it is forced on them is the food pyramid and mom thing. We have found that it is more effective to have freely available fruit snacks. Oranges and grapefruits fresh picked from someone's tree along with apples, grapes, watermelons, or other fruit in season along with a stock of canned peaches, fruit cocktail, and pie mix for the over fire pies or dutch oven cobblers. The fruit eaters will eat it the avoiders will avoid but it is low spoilage.

[Pack212Scouter]

For the egg in a bag thing, use plastic sandwich bags and put in boiling water. Works great that way actually. There are some tricks though.

1) Squeeze the air out of the bag before sealing or it will burst.

2) Double bag just in case.

3) You can't overboil an egg. Cook it for twice the time you would think unless you like runny eggs.

4) Use non-sharp tongs to squeeze the bag partway through cooking to let the uncooked part out.

5) Add onion, bacon bits, salsa, cheese, whatever. It's a GREAT method for omlets.

[Eamonn]

As you might imagine, I at times am at odds with what I know is a healthy diet and what is a kid friendly diet.

Please don't tell anyone, but a lot of times I tend to go for the kid friendly diet.

My thinking being that having food that they will eat and cook beats them not eating anything but junk.

Sometimes I feel that the adults force Scouts into planning menus that are not what any normal family eats at home.

I have a good friend who sits on the Council Camping Committee, he made a big fuss that oatmeal wasn't being offered at Summer Camp.

Oatmeal was added to the breakfast menu. Other than a few adults none of the Scouts ate it.

How many kids today eat a home-cooked breakfast?

I'm in no way saying that they shouldn't be taught the benefits and the importance of well balanced meals and food or that Pop-Tarts and instant add hot water type food is what they should be cooking and eating.

Learning to cook even at home has its own challenges, learning to cook at camp has more!

I do think of all the skills that we pass on to our Scouts cooking is the one that they will use most when they grow up.

Expanding menus and cooking techniques is a good thing and can be lots of fun.

The Ship has been playing with ovens made from cardboard boxes covered with heavy duty aluminum foil, using charcoal as the heating element.

So far they have cooked a few roasts and pies, but have not been able to get it hot enough to cook a pizza from scratch.(It works with frozen pizza!!)

Eamonn.

[dancinfox]

When I held the position of Scoutmaster, I always gave each patrol $2.50 for the one meal I was going to eat with them. I might not get food cooked to perfection, but I always got the menu they prepared. I have tried the egg and bacon in a paper bag and it does work quite well. The thing is, it takes about 40 minutes to cook over coals, not the fire. Put the bacon in first, let it start frying and the grease will coat the paper bag. Once the bacon starts getting crispy, then drop the egg in the center and it will fry.

David Harrison

[SctDad]

I can feel the pain of what is going on. I have a pack overnighter planned and I trying to figure out how to go about planning the meals. I have one boy who will not eat meat for the most part so that makes planning interesting.

 

Anyone have any suggestions

 

Side Note:We have 6 Tiger Cubs and 1 Wolf, and 2 Webelos

 

That makes a large difference

[Pack212Scouter]

Hmm...no meat..does pose it's own challenges. If it's just vegitarian, try subbing soy/veggie burgers for meat with a extra oil to keep from burning.

 

Menu suggestions:

 

1) Hobo meals (use veggi burger for him instead....if not, he may just like the potatoes, onions, etc with somesavory seasoning. Don't forget a liberal helping of oil or it will burn though)

 

2) Baked potatoes & corn on the cob cooked over coals in it's shuck and wrapped in foil.

 

3) Pasta with a no-meats sauce (everyone liks this)

 

4) Stir fry...serve his with only the veggies if he simply doesnt like meat.

 

5) Beans...especially chili?

[anarchist]

Lisabob,

 

food waste is sorta natural with groups of boys...check out not only the school cafeteria but watch the plates coming off the table at your favorite restaurant...lots of waste going in the garbage....

 

That said, I agree that your son should have the issue brought up at the next PLC...

 

In our troop (we push hard for good meals that are appropiate to the weekends schedule), our SPL checks and approves all menus at our last meeting before each campout (or before). Since he does not have to prepare meals or clean up (he eats with the adults as a perk of office)...One of his tasks is to float through the different patrol campsites to be sure they are getting meals done in a timely, semi-healthy manner.

 

He frequently is invited (as is the SM) to eat with the patrols (his/their choice). This keeps younger boys on task and older boys from being too lazy. Sometimes he (the SPL)details a troop instructor to help a patrol having difficulties...

 

On some campouts our guys do really involved meals, on some its one pot. But on all we try to be certain the boys are learning that cooking can be part of the fun and not a drudge.

 

Apples are great! but when I supply them, for the adult kitchen half the apples come home...but dehydrated apples are consumed like candy... as are most dehydrated fruits...I generally stock up on a large bag of dried fruit and nuts (Costco) and suppliment with a few bags of dryed mango or apples or cranberries. You should suggest to your son he might want to take a small "offering" to his patrol meeting to see how it goes over...

 

 

Pack212Scouter...I believe the egg in a bag "trick" the folks were discussing above, is classified in most training books under the heading of "gimmick"- cooking over fire meals... and not the boiled eggs in a plastic bag omelet.

 

In this meal you use a "hot coals" fire and a Paper Lunch bag. Generally, you cut the bacon in half so one piece/slice covers the bottom of the paper bag and then break open one or two eggs and drop on top of the bacon.

 

You fold over the top of the bag once or twice and poke a small hole either through the fold or just under it. A green stick is then used to elevate the bag over the hot embers until the bacon (and eggs)is "done". Regulating the heat is the trick. If done correctly and not placed too close to the hot embers, the grease and liquid from the eggs will prevent the bag from burning (like boiling water in a paper cup)...It takes the right "touch", and some luck or experience to work well... but when it does you simply tear off the top of the paper bag and use the bottom of the bag as your plate and eat up...

 

Later the bag is burned in your fire

and you have only your fork or spoon to clean. but generally it takes longer than just frying the things up in a mess kit...

 

good scouting

Anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

[SSScout]

The original post made me think of a few questions, which led to the following experiment:

 

I froze a half dozen eggs over night. The next morning, naturally I couldn't fry or dip bread in them, but I tried boiling them. They were all cracked from the freezing, puffed out a bit. I put three in cold water and brought it to a boil. The cracked areas let out eggy stuff, so the water soon became cloudy. When the water finally boiled, I let it cook for ten minutes. Hard boiled eggs! I believe they even shelled easier than room temp eggs. I chopped them up in a bowl with shredded whole wheat toast, added some barbecue sauce, Umm-mm breakfast.

The next morning, I took the next three eggs and put them in already boiling water. The cracks let eggy stuff out into the water, but not so much. Like egg drop soup, I guess. Ten minutes later, harb doiled eggs! Chopped 'em up, chopped celery, a little onion, mayo. Toast and sonofagun breakfast again.

 

In my experience, about the only thing you can't salvage from being frozen on a camp trip is fresh fruit and tomatoes, and even they can be salvaged if you like popsicles. Need hot chocolate for compensation...

 

Bon appetit and YiS

[Lisabob]

SSScout, that is going beyond the call. Thanks - I'm sharing this with my son who keeps giving me the "there was nothing I could do about it!" line. Sure there is...if you're willing to be a little flexible.