Scout Troop Program - Opinions?

[DugDirt]

I have a son who is about to go into the only local troop from WEBELOS. I am an ex-scout and loved my experiences, and I want him to have a great boy scout experience too.

 

The problem is I am not liking what I see in the local troop (our only option).. It's kind of smallish, but that's not the problem. The parents mostly go on all the campouts, attend the scout meetings and stay.

 

The adult leaders (scoutmaster and his asst) are really the Patrol Leaders in teh few times I have seen them - even though there are some boys appointed or elected as such. They carry everything in trailers and trucks (instead of backpacking) and there is no sense of Patrol spirit and competition that I knew as a scout. They go on some cool trips (florida sea base and summer camp out of council in the mountains) but it all seems that the adults are making this happen. They have even been taking Cub Scouts (brothers of Boy Scouts) on camping trips (with Mom and Dad too)..

 

They went on a canoe trip to an island on open water in December!! and it all sounded silly too me as I heard the trip plan evolve. I have been on many canoe trips in various conditions and most boys were too young in my way of thinking - and they eventually ended up taking motorboats instead.. They work on merit badges at meetings -and its not "awful".. But, it's just not what I expect - nor does it line up with what I think Scouting is supposed to be.

 

Any ideas from you experienced Scouters? Should I join as a leader and try to change it? I know enough about these types of situations to know what happens to the guy who comes in and tries to change everything..

 

Would like your help..

[Beavah]

Yah, hi DugDirt. Welcome to da forums, eh? And welcome back to Boy Scouting!

 

Quality and style of Boy Scout units is goin' to vary a lot between different troops. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, sometimes just different. The first thing yeh have to do is give up the notion that your son's Scouting experience is going to be like yours. It hopefully will also be "great", but it will definitely be different.

 

One of the things that's happened in the years since yeh were a lad in the program is that there's been slow "creep" in a number of ways -

 

Creep toward more adult-run and organized activities.

Creep toward more direct parent/adult involvement for "safety" (and just because parents aren't as trusting as they used to be).

Creep toward more rules/regulations.

Creep toward more rapid, easier, school-like advancement.

Creep away from the Patrol Method and patrol competitions.

 

Just the way the world has been goin', not just da BSA!

 

Since you don't have any other choices in a troop, I think yeh sign your son up with enthusiasm. At the same time, you promise yourself that for your son's entire first year, you will not comment or criticize in any way, except to offer praise or thanks for something done well. Yah, yah, and of course for any gross safety issue. Like yeh say, you don't want to be that obnoxious "new guy." Yeh have to build up some relationships before any idea yeh have is going to have any chance of growin'.

 

So here's what you do instead. Yeh volunteer to serve where they need you, but you'd like to be involved with the boys in some way. You take training, and you talk the SM and other ASMs into coming, too, if only so that you don't feel lonely . All the training - right up to Woodbadge. Be enthusiastic. Go out with 'em for beers after going together to district RoundTable and share your memories of your scouting experiences without judging them. Listen to their views and perspectives and get fired up by their vision for Scouting. Ask your DE who the best youth-run troops are in your district and suggest all the adults and the SPL/ASPL go visit that troop on a campout just to get more ideas (and invite them to visit yours).

 

Honor the accomplishments of the current leaders. Bring respect for them and the huge volunteer effort they've already given to the program and continue to give. And then contribute what you have to offer, but don't be telling them what yeh think they should do; just be exposin' 'em to enthusiasm and new (and old!) ideas. If yeh get into the role of an adult leader, your fellow scouters should be your friends.

 

You're right, there's room for improvement here, eh? But there's room for improvement in every troop, includin' the old one you remember fondly. Never forget these boys are going to remember this troop fondly.

 

After your first year, your son will have found his place and you will have built up some relationships. Thank your new scouter colleagues for your son's first year, and especially for the most memorable moments. Then sit together and consider the one or two things the troop needs to work on in your "year 2" to do a better job. Not all of 'em, just one or two. Volunteer to be "the lead guy" on one of those things.

 

Just like going into the woods, plan on enjoying the trip and relishing in the challenge and the scenery. And, after 7 years, plan to leave it at least a little bit better than when you came.

 

Welcome back to the Adventure!

 

Beavah

 

[Eamonn]

Hi and Welcome.

As I see it you have the following options.

1/ Give up! Don't join any Troop.

2/ Grin and put up with things as they are.

3/ Join and try and change things from the inside. This might take a very long time and the trail will at times be very rough going.

4/ Go shopping for a Troop a little further away from home?

5/ Start a new Troop. No easy task.

6/ Find a way to have a chat with the SM and maybe the CC about where they think the Troop is heading? Express your concerns and see what happens. I really think that no matter what this can't do any harm. Of course whatever they say, things are not going to change overnight.

Eamonn.

[Bob White]

My sympathies. I really do feel badly for you and especially for your son. This is what happens when leaders do not learn, or do not follow, the actual scoutng program. And at the moment trained leaders are at a low ebb.

 

I can also share with you from first hand experience that unless the leaders WANT to change, you will be unable to sway them no matter how far off they are or how well you understand the scouting program. They are doing what they are comfortable doing, and unless they develop a willingness to learn, or desire to improve, you will be unable to coax a change in them. Trust me!

 

You noticed the troop was small, can you guess why? Maybe it's time your community had a second troop to choose from. I would bet that the kids in your area are starving for an actual scouting program.

 

I would urge to you contact you local scout office for assistance and look into starting a new troop. If you willing to be a leader in this troop, then why not be willing to lead a new troop. You already understand what scouting should not be. Give your son the chance to experience what it should be.

 

Best wishes,

BW

 

 

 

[DugDirt]

Thanks to you good folks for your help. I really appreciate Beav's comments about a steady breeze of change -as opposed to a hurricane - but I am worried I will not be patient enough to change the current leaders and troop. If it was all from scratch, that would be easier (in my mind). Which leads to the new troop comment offerred by someone.

 

Thanks for the caution about it being just like my days as a Boy Scout. Though I understand and am aware of this dynamic, I don't think it would be too bad for me to try and bring some tradition in the door, and make it at least a little closer. 100 years is approaching as I see from the website.

 

My son and I already camp, hunt, fish, bike, and hike together. I have brewed over this a long time, and Please don't take offense, but I honestly have thought to just forget the idea of Scouts for him and keep up our own little in-the-family version - maybe invite a friend or two once in a while.. I know that would not be the same as the real thing, but neither is the local troop. We could add our own service projects, history trips, home-grown summer camp etc. Still not the Patrol method though.

 

I talked to the current adult leaders and have gotten to know them. I have that feeling that they are pretty firm in their ways and see what they do as a great thing.. And maybe it is in it's own way. But it's clearly not Boy Scouts to me in my way of looking.

 

Oh yeah, here's a weird thing. Almost all of the parents come to and STAY at the troop meetings. That NEVER happened when I was in Scouts (Here I go again). I would have quit scouts in a heartbeat if my or other boy's Moms hovered over our patrol corner and "helped" us. I hardly liked it when an Asst Scoutmaster hovered too long.. I recall the ones that hovered and the ones that taught us and "let us be".. You could guess which one is more fondly regarded in my memory.

 

I just looked up and realized this post is getting long. I apologize. I have vented, but it felt good because my wife has "no idea", and my comments to her (like the above) go whoosh - over her head. She says basically just drop him off/ help out where needed (everywhere in my opinion) and don't worry about it.

 

Thought- There needs to be an Old (ouch) Scout's Counseling Group for guys like me.. Maybe I found it. HAha. I feel better after sharing with you and your replies . Thanks again.

 

 

[Lisabob]

"Oh yeah, here's a weird thing. Almost all of the parents come to and STAY at the troop meetings"

 

You might want to consider whether there are less noxious reasons for this. You mention that this troop is the only one available in the area, which suggests to me that maybe some parents are driving quite a ways to get their sons to the meeting. I know this is the case in my son's troop, and most parents do stay because it would be silly to drop the child off, drive home, sit at home for 10 minutes or so, and then drive back to pick up their child.

 

On the other hand, with a couple of exceptions of hover parents (and we try to wean those), most parents hang out in the back of the room during the meeting and are not involved in what the patrols are doing.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, if yeh don't have patience then I think yeh follow your wife's advice, eh? She sounds like a wise lady.

 

Let your son get out of it what he's going to get out of it. With solid skills developed at home, he'll probably be quick to be a leader in the troop and then he and his new buddies will push it where they want to take it. The troop does sound like it's doin' some adventurous stuff that will give fine opportunities to your lad - whether it's Seabase, a cool summer camp, or a December lake canoe outing. I reckon the last would provide plenty of opportunity for a savvy lad to participate in leadership, eh?

 

So stay away for the first year. Let your son find his own place without you makin' noise. Keep up your family outings, too, but let him show you his stuff, let him solo hike, etc. Give him skills to take back to his troop.

 

After your son has found his place, your family trips are gonna start to fade, eh? He'll just be at that age. Come on his troop stuff when he invites you or when they ask for help. Let him invite his friends and troop buddies on personal/family outings, and let 'em work independently as a patrol when they're with you. He'll still end up with a great experience, just different. I reckon they'll push their troop along with new ideas, then, eh? And you won't be tempted to be a nuisance to other families who are happy with their program.

 

Can't help yeh on the "start a new troop" option without knowing your area and market, and whether you have time in your schedule for another full-time (non-paying) job without disrupting your life and family.

 

Beavah

 

[Knight]

One practical thing you could do: Suggest the parents meet in a room separate from the boys. It is great that so many parents are willing to spend time each week. Maybe try (gently) to encourage them to meet a little more physically separated away from the boys so the parents can get some Committee work done or tasks divied up? Perhaps a room across a hallway from the Scouts' room, or in the hallway outside the Scouts' room?

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Dugdirt,

 

I agree with Lisa's and Beavah's writings. During that first year, patience is essential. There are ways to share your experience, but if you read the archives here,... many parents end up in a horror story because of how they tried to be agents of change immediately.

 

Listen. Listen closely. Listen to what the SM, ASMs and CC are saying. Catalog it against a day when you can take a front-rank role as a Scouter.

 

Join! It's hard to be an agent of change if you are on the outside. You have skills which can translate as a MB Counselor. You have abilities which can supplement those of someone serving on the Committee now. Join and be part of the Adult Association Method.

 

Be in uniform. I tend to like setting the example quietly, through my actions. Obtain and wear the BSA uniform correctly and proudly. One hint: Thorlo socks hold up better than Supply Division cotton

 

Stay away from your son. Give him room to grow! Let other youth be his teachers. Where you see blatant error, discuss that away from the Troop meeting with the ASM who keeps an eye on the technical skills of Guides and Instructors.

 

Welcome to the forums, we look forward to hearing your tales of your journey through the adult side of Scouting !

 

John

[Crew21_Adv]

DugDirt,

 

Greetings!

 

You have already received some excellent advise.

 

I belive troops can go thru peaks and valleys over the years. Also, an old quote "Rome wasn't built in a day", may be true.

 

I would add a few comments that you will probably hear over and over.

 

It may be difficult to grow a troop.

 

Attend all the training you can. Beginning with NLE and Scoutmaster Specifics, and attend monthly Roundtable. Ask the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster if they have attended these training events. Ask the Troop Committee Members if they have conducted training. Ask the Scoutmaster if they conduct Troop Leadership Training, or send Scouts to NYLT.

 

Next, I would return to the Pack and be an advocate for the Troop. Tell the Webelos Den Leaders and their parents that this small troop in your town, can easily become their sons' troop. Not a violent coup against the regime, but quickly augmenting the current leadership, with more and more help.

 

If the 2008-2009 Webelos families cross over, have the parents join as active ASMs and active committee members. Then they may advise their new Scouts. Bring ideas up at the PLC and discuss it with adult association.

 

Ideally this single small troop, may get back on the Scouting trail and heading towards a mountain top experience once again.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv