my sons first backpacking campout

[cad-guy]

We are preparing for our first backpacking campout. I don't think it will be a real long hike, but we need help with equipment. I need recommendations on what kind of pack to get. There are many packs at the larger sports stores, but I am not sure what I need. There needs to be a way to attach a bedroll, but not sure how you do that. Any help you guys/girls can give us rookies will be greatly appreciated.

[Lisabob]

I'll let others give you more detailed advice about what to get/avoid, but as a general suggestion - Before you spend a bunch of money on a pack and gear, it might be a good idea for you and your son to go to a good outdoor store and ask them the following questions: 1) do they rent gear (esp. a good idea if your son is not sure yet about how much backpacking he'll want to do, or of what type of equipment he prefers) and 2) do they offer any BSA member discounts and 3) can they help you with fitting the gear to your son's body.

 

If you have stores nearby where the staff is actually knowledgeable, they can and usually will help you out considerably, which can save you a lot of money too. After all, this stuff can get pricey.

 

Also, your son's troop leaders ought to be able to help him figure out what he needs, how to pack it, and might also be in a position to lend him equipment too.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Absolutely agree with Lisa. Your Scout is probably still growing. A frame designed to fit a 5'3" young person will have challenges if he grows to be 6'4"...

 

Right now, the one thing I would suggest is good hiking boots and socks. The feet are the foundation of the "house on your back" as Colin Fletcher put it in his book "On Your Own in the Wilderness." Your Scout needs a stable foundation.

 

Beyond that, I'm not going to give advice, because I don't know where you live, what the climate regime is ... all manner of basic information.

 

Hopefully his Troop Guide and Instructors are giving him the info he needs. If you have questions, ask to speak to the youth trainer for your son. If you find that there's a hole in teaching these Scouts, ask the Scoutmaster to share a cup of coffee with you and share some info too...

[Bob White]

I would ask aound you scouting and personal community for the name of a trusted camping store in your area with a trained staff such as REI. They can help you in selecting a pack that will serve your son at this stage.

 

John gives excellent advice to get good shoes. Also watch the weight. Once packed it should not exceed 25% of his body weight at this stage.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[raisinemright]

We were in your shoes about 6 months ago. My tenderfoot wanted to work on the BP merit badge. I'm a ASM so I told him we could see if any other boys wanted to backpack as well. We put together a crew of about 6 guys and another dad and then started to amass some gear.

 

That was my first mistake. I keep buying stuff. We were just packing gear today for a short trip we're taking snow camping next weekend. He's going for the year round camping award and can't go on the troop campout next month so he and I are going together, in Michigan in winter. Should be pretty cool

 

Lisabob's advice was good. Go to a qualified outfitter to learn what you need. For a first trip, rental might be a good idea. Key things will be socks, boots, a small packing sleeping bag, raingear etc. He probably doesn't need a full mess kit. A bowl, spoon and cup may be enough. Depending on the weather, he may need a foam sleeping mat.

 

Google can be your friend. Look up backpacking101 and scout backpacking and you'll find more info that you could ever use. Backpacker.com is pretty good too.

 

Walmart is a great source for stuff if you know what you need. Merino wool and polypro socks in hunting and polypro shirts are in the mens and boys section. Cheap.

 

Most important, have fun.

[Gold Winger]

REI can be great if there are no other options but I'd look for the local one-off store run by a hiking/camping/outdoors enthusiast.

 

My local guy spent at least a half hour fitting me for a pack which included bending the internal frame to fit me.

 

I got a great deal on woolen socks at Costco. Four pair for $10. I have about 20 pair. I wore them at Philmont. Great socks.

 

Type of boot will vary with the type of trail. A smooth, improved trail, a kid can get by with a less expensive boot. But a rocky, hilly trail, you're going to want something with a stiffer sole like the Vibram soles on Vasque boots or the Asolo rubber soles.

 

You can find bargains, if you know what you are looking for. I picked up a pair of Asolo boots that normall go for $150 for $100 at Dick's.

 

Also, get some guidance on how much room you'll need in your pack. The pack that I bought for Philmont is about 5,000 cubic inches.

 

One last thing, if you have a good idea of what you need, look at ScoutDirect.com, that's Alps Mountaineering's web site for Scouting discounts. I bought my sleeping bag from them and was fairly pleased. I bought an Alps pack but got that at the outfitters.

 

 

[Eagledad]

Great day all

 

Aw to be your son. Getting backpacking equipment was always wonderful experience for me. My dad wasnt all that active with my scouting, but I we spent a lot of time together finding gear for my first backpacking campout in Colorado.

I suggest external frame packs for the younger scouts. As John said, your son is going to be growing and external frames adjust easier to growing scouts. They are also easier to pack, unpack and adjust on the trail if needed. They can take a lot of punishment and are little cooler to wear in the summer. New scouts like to just throw things in here and there, so they external is great for that. Plus it is much easier to find a piece of gear in one of the many compartments of an external frame backpack in the dark tent. Internals require patience looking for anything. The external backpack will teach your son how to pack for when he is ready to get and internal. Then there is the cost difference too. External packs look uncomfortable compared to the external, but they are fine. There are several good brands. Jansport and Kelty have good beginner packs for less than $100.

 

Lisabob is right to check for used gear. Ask if your troop has any to borrow or for sale. We had several. If you find an old pack somewhere, make sure it has a good hip belt. The hip belt is the most important part of the pack suspension system because it will carry 85% of the weight. If it looks cheap, skip the pack.

 

John is right about good boots, but not too good of a boot. I have two sons who out grew a pair of boots every year until they were seventeen. What you need for growing scouts are boots that will hold up to a teenage boy for a couple years. But it is hard to know what is good and what isnt. So here is a good test. Grab the sole of the boot you are looking at and try to twist the boot. If the boot has little or no twist, then it will likely work fine. Leather works better, but there are some good no leather boots out there. Wallmart has some decent boots for the job. No steel toes. They get cold in the winter. Your son needs to walk in those boots as much as he can before the first hike. If not, blisters are likely.

 

Socks are where I wouldnt cut cost. Typically backpackers wear two pairs of socks. Liners and main socks. The thin liners repel moisture which is the main cause of blisters and cold feet, and they allow the main sock to slide enough to prevent less friction which is also the cause of blisters. Technology is getting good enough where you dont have to wear liners to repel the moisture, but I still like them and asked my parents to get them for their sons. If the feet get very wet, which is common in backpacking, great socks will protect the feet where good boots wont. Check the material of the socks and make sure they dont have any cotton. That is why they will be a little more expensive, but cotton absorbs moisture. Expect to spend $6 to $10 for good reasonably priced hiking socks and liners.

 

Try on the boots with the socks because they can fill up a boot pretty quick.

 

There are some good sales right now if you mail order. Do a search for different stores, Campmor and REI are good starts.

 

Those are couple suggestions, I know others will step in as well because backpacking is a lot of fun.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[John-in-KC]

Barry,

 

Absolutely agree on not getting "the top of the line" in just about anything at his current state of growth... having been there twice (EagleSon in his youth program time and me waaaay back when), top of the line gear will shortly be outgrown.

 

Of course, I can guarantee you a complete backpacking outfit can be bought several times over for the price of a tuba!

 

I do like REI, but my co-op number is just over 100,000. Problem is, I don't like at this stage not having a real outfitter to go to. Since the poster didn't say where he is... so I can't help on shops.

 

Edit to add: Where is Mr Gizmo, the outfitter of my youth in Reseda, CA? He's the one who taught me "head, shoulders, knees and toes among other things... and he taught a lot about backpacking gear from selling it and using it!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Ohio_Scouter]

Hi cad-guy,

 

My fellow scouters have given you excellent advice already--especially that about borrowing gear before you buy. This will give you an opportunity to try the gear out and form your own opinions before you invest hundreds of dollars in expensive backpacking gear.

 

Many of us are backpacking merit badge counselors, so I will refer you to your local scout shop to pick up and read a copy of the backpacking merit badge book for detailed guidance on backpacking and recommended equipment.

 

If you'd like to see what Philmont Scout Ranch recommends for personal backpacking equipment, go to http://www.scouting.org/philmont.

 

In my opinion, backpacking is the epitome of scouting. It doesn't get any better than that. Have fun!

 

 

[Oak Tree]

The number one mistake I see among new Scouts is to pack too much stuff, or too heavy stuff. The BSA Fieldbook lists 25% of your bodyweight as a good guideline. This can seem pretty hard if you're trying to put in all kinds of equipment, "just in case he needs it." Heck, it can be hard to keep the weight that low for some of the smaller Scouts regardless.

 

Don't carry two-pound flashlights. Get a headlamp (they're quite cheap at Wal-mart). Have a light pack and a light sleeping bag. If you're going in the cold, it's true that you don't want to skimp on having warm enough equipment, but really consider whether you need every item that goes into the pack.

 

We frequently have boys who struggle with every segment, and who are tired every 100 yards down the trail. Even after we've done some preliminary checks on the backpacks, we can be stunned at what gets slipped in at the last minute. Don't bring cans of soup. Don't bring enough food for a football team. Don't bring three changes of clothes for the weekend. Light, light, light. New Scouts will enjoy it so much more if they can successfully keep up with the group without feeling like their lungs are going to explode.

[Gold Winger]

You asked about attaching a sleeping bag. Usually, internal frame packs have a pocket at the bottom for the sleeping bag. Externals usually strap or tie the sleeping bag to the bottom.

 

Weight does add up quickly. A t-shirt (cotton or plastic) weighs nearly half a pound. So one change of clothing will give you at least two lbs. A few pairs of dry socks a invaluable. Let's go with 3 pounds for clothes.

 

Rain jacket. 1 to 2 lbs.

 

Gloves and knit hat for sleeping. 2 lbs.

 

A decent mid-priced sleeping bag weighs about 3.5 lbs.

 

A pack will weigh at least 4 lbs.

 

We're already over 14 lbs. Toss in his half of the tent at 3 lbs and two quarts of water (4 lbs) and his eating/drinking cup and a spoon and we're pushing 25 lbs.

[cad-guy]

great advise everybody...

I posted my message yesterday, and then had to leave town. I was thrilled when I checked in later and had so many messages.

 

Someone asked where I was. I am in Western Arkansas. This will not be a long trip. We are looking at one night on the trail, just to give the boys a taste of backpacking fun! Again thanks. If anyone know of a good outfitter in AR, let me know.

 

MKH

 

 

[BrentAllen]

For a backpack, check out Alps Mountaineering (www.alpsmountaineering.com). They have several packs in kid sizes. The Denali has been popular with our boys. They offer different size waist belts that are interchangeable, so the pack can grow with your son. The packs retail for around $150.00. Once you find the pack you want, go to www.scoutdirect.com and order the same pack with a 45% Scout discount. You will be hard-pressed to find a similar quality pack for anywhere near the price.

 

We have also been very pleased with their tents. Same discout applies to all their gear.

 

If you would like more testimonials from Scouts, check them out on the scoutdirect page, along with photos from Scouts using the equipment. You will see it is used everywhere, from Philmont to Double H to the Shenandoah mountains.

 

Be sure to register on the scoutdirect page, and you will receive emails about other special sales they have a few times each year.

[Beavah]

Yah, givin' advice in an internet forum is tough, eh?

 

I reckon the real answer should be "Your son should ask his Patrol Leader or Troop Guide for help." And you should ask one of the "regular" adults who has been with da program for a while. I reckon they'll know what you need for where you're goin' better than anyone here, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[le Voyageur]

Not mentioned is that it's still winter, meaning not only more weight, but bulkier items of clothing that will take up space in the backpack. It means making choices for those items that can do double, or even triple duty.

 

As for gear, I like my making my own, or shopping at thrift stores. My current mess quick cost around 2 bucks. A Columbia fleece vest was 75 cents. My winter coat, a capote was cut from an inexpensive wool blanket, and hand sewn. Left over material was used for mitts....just a thought