new scouts on winter camp outs

[LongHaul]

I'm with Beavah on this. Membership in the troop does not equal readiness or qualification. If this were a two day canoe trip and these boys were swimmers but never been in a canoe before would they still be allowed to go? If it were a 20 mile hike and these boys had never been hiking would they be allowed to go? Asking the parents for permission does not equal proper prior training. Even if both parents come along it will not prepare the scout for the outing. Just because the theme of the event is Winter Survival our objective should never be actual survival but always one of testing our preparedness and training. The Saturday option is the only one I would present to these new boys.

 LongHaul

[Lisabob]

Thanks for the feedback folks. You've reinforced my initial thoughts on this matter.

[AK-Eagle]

We have a yearly winter survival campout "Frostbite Challenge" in March, an adjustment we made is to have crossover in April, this has two good points. First it eliminates the possible bad feelings about not making the cut for Frostbite, Second even in Juneau the weather in April is a bit more moderate than March which could still pass for winter in many parts of the lower 48

 

AK-Eagle

aka

Phillip Martin

Scoutmaster Troop 700

Juneau Alaska

[Bob White]

This is an good example as to why units should follow the three tier program levels. Not all scouts are ready for the same actvities.

[ASM915]

Lisa,

Our Klondike is this weekend. Saturday night , a balmy 0 is expected here in NE Ohio. I have the same issue with Feb. crossovers. I would rather see crossover in March.

 

As to your dilemma, Saturday only, if even that. Are all your Scouts and leaders going on this campout? Are there a couple Scouts and leaders that were not planning on going? Could they run another Saturday program with these new Scouts, doing something more appropriate? The lock-in idea is good. Take them swimming, go to a gym and work on some of the more fun rank advancement. This way they have fun, don't feel left out, don't get cold and want to quit.

 

Usually our Jan. campout is Klondike, Feb. Is a ski weekend in a cabin, and March is Good Turn for our camp honors program. Last year we almost had all 4 crossovers quit after the March campout. We had 5 inches of snow with temps from 10-25. Even though we tried to prepare them for possible cold weather, and we got it, they still weren't ready. They survived but almost quit. This year the new ones and 2 of last years will have the option of coming to come on Sat. only.

 

Good luck.

[scoutldr]

"three tier program level"?

 

Please refresh our memories, Bob.

[fgoodwin]

I may have told this story before, but its relevant to the "young Scout vs. winter camping" debate (even though its about Cub Scouts).

 

As a Tiger, my son was looking forward to his very first campout with the Cub Scout Pack (this was in Maryland, in the fall of 2000). Because it was a pack campout, our whole family went (me, the wife, my teen-age daughter and my 7-yo son).

 

It was "car camping" so we could take as much or as little as we wanted. Its a good thing we overpacked. As it turned out, that weekend was the first sub-freezing weekend of the fall. What started out as a nice campout in relatively balmy conditions quickly changed into a scramble to dig out heavy sweaters, extra blankets, etc.

 

When I woke to temps in the 20s on that Saturday, I was afraid my son would be turned off to camping (and Scouting) for life. But that weekend turned out to be one of his favorite times of all. He had a great time, and with all the planned activities, he hardly noticed the cold.

 

I understand that Boy Scout camping is not the same as Cub / family camping; having four sleeping bags in the same tent, two of them adults, all sleeping next to each other probably kept us a lot warmer than two skinny Boy Scouts sleeping on opposite sides of a tent could do (given the limits of what they can wear / pack).

 

I think the moral is: plan for the worst and make it fun; you might be surprised how tough the little guys really are.

 

BTW: we live in Texas now, my son is 14 and he really misses the snow!

[Ohio_Scouter]

Fred,

 

Sounds like your family needs to take a winter camping vacation. I'm sure we can accommodate you somewhere up here North of the 39th parallel. The forecast weather forecast for SW Ohio tomorrow night is now party cloudy and cold with a low temperature of 1 degree F.

[ASM915]

Ohio Scouter,

COME ON UP!!!, To western Stark County that is. We'll be west of Canton about 15 miles trying to keep from freezing our, well you know what, OFF. I'm hoping for the clouds for a few extra degrees.

 

Everyone one have a FRIGID, I mean warm weekend out there camping.

 

Lisa, at least we should be a little warmer then you all.

 

[Ohio_Scouter]

ASM915,

 

Thanks for the invite. I'd love to, but I have some plans locally this weekend. Maybe some other time. We're originally from Cleveland, and we often head north to visit relatives. Where are you guys camping this weekend?

[msnowman]

Lisabob - thank you for reminding me that my decision to bridge our sole Webelos II into the troop the day AFTER Chillout is better than the week before. Klondike here isn't the big winter challenge - everybody sleeps in the Academy gym, so that would easy for new guys. However, Chillout requires sleeping in a tent, in Maine, in Febrrrruary. That's something that most new crossovers aren't ready to do. But, the Web I's and II are going out for the day.

I say go with option B - let them visit on Saturday.

 

YiS

Michelle

[ASM915]

Ohio Scouter,

North Lawrence Hunt and Fish Club. Great place for Klondike. A nice group. They sponsor a Troop. Saturday night Council called out to notify any Troops still camping to head home due to wind chills. If they stayed, Council wouldn't cover them insurance wise for cold injuries. The wind didn't even kick up until we were all bedded down.

The club Troop came around and offered their building as shelter during the night if anyone felt it was getting to bad. We had only one that had a hard time . He came out on Saturday night to get another night for Polar Bear. He forgot his ground pad, refused one offered to him and got a little chilly. It was about 0 when we crawled out about 7:00 AM.

 

Found something that helped with the bedding this weekend. On the walking out of the garage Friday, I saw my wifes foam foil sun reflector for the windshield laying in a corner. It found a nice cozy spot between my 2 sealed foam pads and my Therarest pad. It did a nice job at reflecting the body heat back. Both nights I was more then toasty and had to peel off the socks and thermals and open the fleece liner. The next morning the gloves and pants that I had placed between the Therarest and the sun reflector were nice and warm also.

 

Hope everyone stayed warm on your excursions.