Extraterrestrial Leave No Trace?

[GernBlansten]

This forum has been filled with divisive, bad news lately. So I thought it would be good for some cleansing fun debate.

 

Most of you know, I'm somewhat of a LNT evangelical.

 

I was watching a science program on Mars travel. They went into the steps necessary to colonize Mars, one being terraforming the planet. You know, converting the planet's atmosphere to support our life. Got me to thinking, (Yeah I know that's dangerous).

Would LNT apply? Would it be extreme hubris of mankind to go to another planet and start changing it to suit our needs?

[OldGreyEagle]

I would think we should look about our own planet and see how the aliens who visited Earth left it as a cue on how to treat Mars.

 

Since the pyramids of Eygpt and Machu Picchu are obviously alien landing sites and the Terraglyphs in Peru are alien navigational sites, I think we should not worry about how we treat Mars, they certainly didnt take care not to mar ours

[Trevorum]

Gern,

This is actually an ongoing debate in certain circles of futurists. On the one hand we have those who claim the 23rd century equivalent of Manifest Destiny: it is our obligation to colonize every planet, asteroid and rock we can terraform. On the other hand we have the tree-huggers (rock-huggers) who claim we have no right to mess up other biospeheres as well. Personally, I believe that we will ultimately find it easier (and faster) to genetically modify ourselves to live in non-terran environments than to modify those environments.

[local1400]

The temperature on Mars ranges from 1F to -175F according to the space probes who landed there. That is some extreme winter camping!! What would the MSF say about camping in those temps? I don't see how we will ever colonize that planet. But to the thread, those Aliens who crashed at Roswell surely didn't practice LNT.

[GernBlansten]

You think aliens might not have followed LNT on our planet? The stunning lack of concrete evidence of an extraterrestrial visit indicates they did follow LNT.

I do like changing ourselves to survive on their planet and it would follow LNT. We should start the gene mutation immediately and in 40 to 50 generations, we might have folk who could handle it.

[Beavah]

Yah, forget terraformin', eh?

 

What's with flyin' all this garbage up to the planet and leavin' it there? Parachutes, landing craft, rovers junkin' up all the good hikes.

 

Not to mention I remember readin' that we don't do a great job of sterilizing our stuff before we ship it, so we're also doin' our best to introduce our microbes all over da solar system.

 

Worst by far though is our TV transmissions, busily bein' beamed out to all the local stars in the galaxy. Talk about junkin' up the neighborhood! Imagine that our first contact with our neighbors is dumpin' Jerry Springer in their backyard!

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

What a delightfully fanciful thread! As the Borg say, "resistance is futile..."

All significant issues of ethics or morality regarding our 'footprint' on extraterrestrial places have been addressed long ago in the "historical documents" - otherwise known as the original Star Trek series. The "Prime Directive", for example, is undoubtedly a universal standard for space alien interactions and as Gern noted, the absence of such footprints on earth is evidence that visitors to this planet also follow that standard of ethical behavior. We even completely missed the great Rapture of 1996!

OK, I've been to Roswell and yes, I used to know people around here who were really nice people but they nevertheless insisted on wearing aluminum foil on their heads to prevent being influenced by the 'beams' that only they seemed to be able to see (we referred to them as 'the beamers').

But the only evidence of footprints I know of on this planet are the meteor craters and some (still unexplained) lakes...see the link:

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/cbaymenu.html

click on the image for a better view.

 

But the historical documents and our actual past behavior both indicate that we are going to litter space with all kinds of junk. Personally, I dread the prospect of sending people to Mars. All I can see in this endeavor is dead bodies scattered among the other 'terra debris'. I'd much rather see less-expensive robots take those falls.

[GernBlansten]

Transmissions of Jerry Springer is not pollution, but a call for help.

 

Those who do not agree should review the historical document "Galaxy Quest".

[SWScouter]

I think when we start mutating ourselves to withstand colder climates, we ought to, in parallel, direct our efforts into a push for global cooling.

[Gold Winger]

ETs have been here as evidenced by the pyramids which are attempts to replicate the Goa'uld mother ships.

[CalicoPenn]

I wouldn't worry too much about terraforming Mars. By the time we're ready to do so, we won't be launching anything into space anymore because with all the junk we're leaving orbiting the planet, it will be too dangerous to attempt to gain orbit, let alone leave orbit. It's inevitable at this point for a shuttle, or the space station, or a vital sattelite to be critically damaged when it impacts with some little bolt thats floating around in orbit.

 

Calico

[SSScout]

After all, we all depend on each other , right? We don't drive to the grocery store except for the skill and efforts of our friends the auto workers union and OPEC.

Thus, we must realize our responsibility to provide for the archeologists of the future, by LEAVING STUFF BEHIND for the curious students of the early twenty first century.

LNT but L alittle T every so often, even on Mars.

 

"Frank! Look at this! It has a hinge and... are those numbers? and this smooth surface, What are those.. figures.. looks like ...N...O...K..I.. oh, I can't make that out...A? no...H? I bet Professor Velikovsky will love this..."

 

op cit. "Great Moments in Architecture" by David Macaulay

And "Motel of the Mysteries" by David Macaulay

 

(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[Trevorum]

Don't laugh - for the past 30 years I have left a penny in every campfire pit I have built, hoping that the date may help some future colleague. (I didn't mention this at my LNT trainer's course.)

[packsaddle]

Trevorum, your comment has stimulated a question in my mind. We dig up ancient burial grounds, ones that are thousands of years old or older...in the name of archeology - and recent ones in the name of forensics. Is there a certain amount of time before, say, a 'forensics' dig can be called an 'archeological' dig? Or does it merely depend on intent or motive?

[Beavah]

Yah, that's been a LNT discussion for many years.

 

At what point does "trash" become "an artifact", eh?

 

That really does matter... do yeh tell kids to Dispose of Waste Properly (take the trash out with them) or to Leave what they Find (leave the "artifact").

 

IIRC, there's even a loose LNT standard of 75-100 years bein' the "crossover point".

 

B