Cabin Camping Cooking Ideas Needed

[raisinemright]

So, the troop is going on a troopwide cabin campout this weekend. Scouts, Webelo's and parents total about 45 warm bodies. Our troop is fairly new and young. The concept of planning ahead is still kind of foreign to them. We just got the menu from them along with a food list so one of the scouts can go shopping.

 

Most of the meals are decent and simple. Oatmeal, hot dogs etc. However, the plan for Saturday dinner is foil meals. Great idea and very tasty, but I'm wondering about the logistics of trying to cook this on an open fire for 45 people.

 

Should we suggest a different meal or let them go at it with the hopes that next time they'll plan better?

 

If you think we should suggest an alternate, please give me some ideas.

[local1400]

Let them have at it. See how long it takes to cook about 45 meals on an open fire. Then at the next meeting, you have your "lesson learned" session. But why oh why are all 45 people eating the same meal? Where is the patrol method? Not everyone in the troop needs to eat the same meals. That is when you find out which patrols have really done their homework, have carefully planned for hearty meals. Remember, it is winter, you need extra food. But pick up a Scout handbook or Fieldbook and see how eating is done in the patrol method please. Oh, BTW, since you got to let the boys go with their plan for this campout, bring some snacks before dinner.

[raisinemright]

The troop has ballooned in size in the past 6 months. We're also a new troop withthe oldest scout being 14. Most are 11-13. Also the SM, IMHO is too hands off when it comes to teaching the boys how to do this kind of stuff. He's a great guy, but not real good at teaching and forcing things like patrol method. I'm one of the newer leaders and trying not to take over but am pretty good at logistics. Our first years scouts are more organized than the older

 

Because the boys didn't plan the trip at all until the last few days, I do fear that it's not going to go real well. I'm not going on this one but am helping with some of the logistics.

 

We've got a bunch of Webelo's going and lots of parents attending too. One thing we are blessed with is great parental participation.

 

I'll take your advice and let them learn the hard way.

 

[ASM162]

Without knowing the details of your budget, and the logistics of the cabin, etc. I would offer that in addition to the open fire, where you can cook on the coals; you may want to consider purchasing a couple of bags of charcoal, and set up additional 'cooking stations' for the foil pack meals. Of course, you will want to follow Leave No Trace, and utilize either established fire rings or bring along metal trash can lids and place the charcoal in the lids.

[raisinemright]

I told our guys to use charcoal but never thought of multiple cooking stations. Great idea.

[gwd-scouter]

I think the multiple cooking stations with charcoal is a must if you have to cook 45 foil dinners. To accommodate them all on one bed of charcoal, whew! The pile would be so hot you couldn't get near it I think.

[epalmer84]

Some years ago, I was taught the Philmont fold. This is a method of wrapping the foil dinner so that the package stands upright. You can get a larger number of packages on a bed of coals and they cook perfectly.

 

I can't find this online anywhere...

 

Ed

[Kudu]

"I'll take your advice and let them learn the hard way."

 

That is very bad advice.

 

Planning in advance to punish the Scouts with a bad meal is a sure sign of laziness and total incompetency in the adult leaders. Why should the Scouts (and visiting Webelos) suffer because their leaders have not trained them in outdoor Scoutcraft skills and the Patrol Method?

 

1) Go with the Scouts' tin foil plan already in place.

 

2) Most Scout camps have a surplus of established campfire rings at this time of year. The ideal is one ring per Patrol (the further apart the better) but two can share a ring if necessary.

 

If you can't find enough establish rings or metal surfaces, then ask the camp ranger for other suitable surface suggestions: old concrete or the far end of a gravel parking lot for instance.

 

If separating the Patrols is not "possible" (read: the Patrol Method is not "convenient" to the adults), one possibility is to make a long line of charcoal that is three foil meals deep with a total length 15 times the width of each meal (for 45 meals), with each Patrol responsible for its own length of the line. This makes the heat manageable. The camp ranger will probably have such an area set aside for adult training courses.

 

3) Have one Scout or adult who knows what he is doing teach the Patrol Leaders (PL) how to cut up the ingredients, then have the Patrol Leaders take that knowledge back to their Patrols.

 

If the Patrol Leaders are just Leadership Development popularity contest winners, the best way to sneak the Patrol Method into a Troop is through Scoutcraft instruction: in addition to the PL simply include one competent Scout from each Patrol in any practical lessons. Call him the "cook" or the "fireman" or something.

 

It is also not "against the rules" to send in the Troop's most competent Scout when a Patrol is obviously having problems. Remember that the best Scout in the Troop is not necessarily the elected SPL or his appointed Troop Guide or Instructor. The good news is that the SPL will usually know that and will take advice if diplomatically given.

 

If you always make an effort to recognize and include the most competent Scouts in these kinds of practical Scoutcraft instruction, they will eventually be elected to the proper positions (at least for a while).

 

If you don't have any clue as to which Scouts in the Troop are the quickest studies, look first to the "wise guys," "trouble-makers," "class clowns," or other hooligans. They are usually the real leaders.

 

4) After the food is prepared the instructor shows Scouts from each Patrol how he builds the hardwood fire or charcoal bed for the adult meals.

 

5) After the charcoal is started the instructor then teaches Scouts from each Patrol how to combine the prepared food ingredients and fold the foil.

 

6) Consider buying cheap charcoal chimneys from a local store to get the charcoal started, see:

 

http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=4040&f=23983

 

One chimney per Patrol is enough if you make sure they start new batches of charcoal as soon as the very top layer of coals in the chimney has small white patches (or small red spots after dark). Chimneys will be useful when your Troop discovers Dutch ovens. Charcoal chimneys do not require flammable liquids, and any 11 year-old can use one to start a perfect charcoal fire with a minimum of instruction.

 

7) You will need to shelter the charcoal beds if it is raining.

 

Kudu

 

 

[scottteng]

What is is! Sounds like we call a family campout. Try and minimize the disaster. Foil packs will be good maybe even great . They are what the training staff here does for most trainings. A large drain pan (rectangular) is used to hold charcoal I believe it was in its former life the emergency drain pan of a large commercial A/C unit. A large mound of charcoal is put in the middle lighted and when it is well lit distributed around the pan. We have had as many as 20 dinners on it so you may need a couple of these unless the park you are going to already has one of those monster grills. I was at a park the other day where they had a charcoal grill big enough to cook a whole side of beef. The chimney things are good but only hold a small amount of charcoal. If worse comes to worse you can lay out the coals on foil to cook the meals. Make sure you have plenty of coal handling gear if you are going to move em around.

[eagle90]

I agree with Kudu. Do not set up the scouts to fail. Especially if you have visiting Webelos who you are trying the recruit and impress. Don't forget by rule, the Webelos must have a parent with them. Nothing will turn off a parent (and Webelo) to your troop if you have bad meals on a campout. Put on a good show!

 

Dale

[raisinemright]

Nope, we won't let 'em fail, but we will use it as an opportunity to encourage better planning next time. All Webelo's will have parents there and most of them already have scouts in the troop. Most of us have known each other for years.

 

The idea of a long cooking area is really good and I'll pass that on to the other leaders.

 

However, what we cannot do is fly in to their rescue every time. The boys need to have a problem and use their skills to solve the problem, and there are many solutions.

 

The rest of their meal plans are good and this one will eventually work but it'll be a challenge for them.

[nldscout]

45 foil dinners? Very small number.

 

When we did Cub Scout Outdoor Skills Day, everyone made and ate Foil dinners for lunch. Our best year was over 300 all made, cooked and ate in 90 min along with DO deserts.

[Kudu]

"However, what we cannot do is fly in to their rescue every time."

 

Well, why not?

 

This notion of "rescue" is perhaps the biggest difference between Scouting as it was understood by Baden-Powell and Scouting as it is conveyed by the often-heard catchphrase "boy-run."

 

"The boys need to have a problem and use their skills to solve the problem, and there are many solutions."

 

Why do Scouts "need to have a problem"? If most of your Scouts are 11-13, what Scoutcraft skills do they really already have to "solve the problem"?

 

In Baden-Powell's version of Scouting the older Patrol Leaders are responsible for running their own Patrol Meetings and Patrol Hikes (and even Patrol Campouts) away from the Troop, but when the Patrols meet together as a Troop the Patrol Leaders (as a mature group) set the general theme for these indoor meetings or Troop campouts with the option of leaving the creative details to the Scouters.

 

It is only when we do everything as a Troop (called the Troop Method) that adults get overly hung-up about making all aspects of these whole-Troop weekly meetings and whole-Troop monthly campouts "boy-run."

 

Now, should Scouters teach Scoutcraft skills or should Scouters teach managerial skills to solve problems?

 

My vote is Scoutcraft. Scouts can't come up with "many solutions" without first being taught some very specific basic skills.

 

As you say, you have a new Troop with young leaders (the oldest is 14), and as others have pointed out this Troop does not appear to be using the Patrol Method yet. Well, how do you get from where you are to where you want to be, especially if your Scoutmaster is "a great guy but not real good at teaching and forcing things like patrol method"?

 

You say that you are "pretty good at logistics". That should be your own personal path.

 

If they express an interest in foil meals (but obviously have no idea how to do it), then someone attending the campout should teach them the specific logistics that he would use to cook.

 

Don't try to teach 13-year-olds abstract problem-solving or logistics management and expect them to set off on a voyage of discovery in time to systematically determine and then study the Scoutcraft skills they will need when they get to the woods :-)

 

By the way, if they want foil meals rather than oatmeal and hot dogs then perhaps they are looking for an upgrade.

 

One way to stimulate more interest in cooking is for the adults to cook their own Dutch oven meals. Try to start cooking early enough before each meal so that the Scouts can smell your delicious food before they start to prepare their own humble hot dogs and oatmeal.

 

If this in turn leads to one single Scout wanting to try Dutch oven cooking, then have the adults and the one Scout cook the same thing. Allow the most curious Scouts watch how the adults do it, then have the Scout or Scouts follow the exact same steps to cook the exact same thing.

 

AFTER they have expressed an interest THEN teach them how.

 

One way to teach cooking is make a demonstration in a Troop meeting of a Patrol of adults reading out-loud the titles of recipes from a backwoods cookbook (The Geezer Cookbook has a number of good recipes with gross titles like "Road Kill Stew"). The adults disagree on different recipes and then settle on one. One adult reads the ingredients out-loud, with another making an equipment list out-loud, and another making a shopping list out-loud.

 

In the olden days this was called a "Stunt."

 

A Stunt is different from a skit in that it conveys useful information in an entertaining format.

 

And yes, the adults actually plan and run that part of the meeting! And then continue the Stunt as a practical demonstration at the next campout.

 

When the best natural boy leaders (not necessarily the Patrol Leaders) have been taught specifically and successfully how to cook over a wood fire, AND in foil over charcoal, AND in a Dutch oven, AND with a camp stove, AND with a backpacking stove, AND with whatever other specific skills the adults in your Troop may have, THEN the Scouts (some of them anyway) will start to improvise and "use their skills to solve their problems" and discover "many solutions."

 

This is the time for Scouts to make their mistakes and learn from them.

 

The key to building the Patrol Method is in physically separating the Patrols. That can be difficult when cabin-camping. However, food and very sharp differences in taste can work for you during the long winter months.

 

Then when it gets warm enough for tents, separate those Patrols by 200 feet and see what they learned about cooking.

 

Kudu

 

The Geezer Cookbook is available for free at MacScouter.Com:

 

http://www.macscouter.com/Cooking/GEEZERCB.rtf

 

[scottteng]

Yes the "stunt" is a great idea as is adult patrol cooking by example. Several times I have dragged my brinkman smoker on a trip and started early in the AM smoking chicken leg quarters for the adult evening meal and watched while the boys have cooked and eaten their meals and we adults just happen to have some leftover smoked chicken to share after they are all done eating their hamburgers. Somehow we do not have any leftover cooked in coals sweet potatoes but they do get the idea. This is a great meal on the budget as well as leg quarters are very reasonable a ten pound bag can be had for less than a couple of pounds of ground beef leaving plenty to share. For this poor guy for a event this weekend time is short and foil dinners will work and be a lesson to one and all if they cook them efficiently. Foil dinners is what we do here for trainings it is harder to gripe about the food if you fixed your own.

[raisinemright]

Kudu,

 

Thanks for the advice. That's actually close to what we're doing. My thing about not flying in to the rescue was the flying part. We're going to plant the seed that this is going to be a logistic challenge and see where they go toward fixing it. When the time is right, we'll make some suggestions to guide the solution.

 

What my real goal to teach this time is that on a trip of this size, trying to sleep, feed and keep 45 people busy is that every step of it needs to be planned and even somewhat scripted. Me and another dad have been scrambling all week to get supplies like cooking utensils, firewood etc. Most of the leaders and the boys think this stuff just happens but without a little advance work, nothing just happens. You're right though, we need to train the scouts. This will be a very good step. The SPL has done a pretty good job with the duty roster so everyone will know what's expected of them and when.

 

As far as cool stuff, our new patrol of 8 Tenderfoot Scouts who've been together since Tigers decided to make Monkey Bread in dutch ovens for a Cracker Barrel Saturday night. We got together and planned out the prep which actually begins 6 hours before the stuff gets cooked. These guys are gonna have fun making that snack, and sharing it with everyone.

 

And, for the future, our plan is to separate by patrols.