how to get kids interested in hiking and backpacking?

[Lisabob]

We are really fortunate in our troop to have a few adults who love to hike, backpack, and just get off the beaten path. For the last three years, one of these guys has been trying to drum up interest among the older scouts in doing more of these types of activities. Specifically, he'd like to see a Venture Patrol formed that could give the older boys in the troop some separate, more challenging activities. We have a history of doing well with keeping older boys active in the troop, and this is part of our effort to continue with that. Problem is, the boys express NO desire and don't generally respond to his overtures to try it (though some of the adults do!).

 

This summer he tried once again and now that my son is old enough to be included, I was hoping he'd jump at the chance. He did not. I asked why, and he told me he wasn't so sure hiking and backpacking sounded like much fun. At least he's honest, but I know this response was disappointing to our Scouter who is trying to share his love of the outdoors with the boys.

 

Today in another thread, Kudu writes:

NEVER use the word "BACKPACKING" around children! Never, ever, ever!

 

* A wilderness trek over flat land might be called a "Wilderness Trek" or B-P's term "Journey." Mountain climbing can be called "Mountain Climbing." Describe the trek NOT by lugging weight on your back ("backpacking"), but by an attractive destination such as a wading pool at the bottom of a waterfall, a remote fishing hole, or a scary night at a haunted lean-to.

 

 

And I think that's a BIG part of the problem we're facing. I'm going to talk with the Scouter in our troop about re-framing his proposals to be more appealing (maybe including photos of a potential destination too). But in the meantime, what other tricks of the trade have you used to get skeptical boys to try - and then, hopefully, like - hiking and backpacking?

 

 

[scoutldr]

Problem is, they are faced with too many more comfortable alternatives, courtesy of Mommy and Daddy. Why break a sweat when they don't have to? An unlimited supply of video games, MySpace and Pepsi will beat sweat, bugs and tiredness (aka, WORK) every time.

 

IN my day (60's), I wasn't asked which I preferred to do...my Dad kicked my butt out of the house and said I wasnt' going to sit around wasting my life in front of the boob tube. Then I joined scouting and this fat little bookworm did three 50 milers and earned Eagle, which I still remember as my best times.

 

Maybe it's time to explain to the PLC that "Scouting" = "Outing", and NOT camping and hiking is not an option. It's kinda like joining a bowling team and then staying home because you'd rather watch TV. If no one wants to bowl, why have a team? I'm sure the adults have other things to do rather than try to provide something that the kids don't want. It has to start with the parents, and if they let their kids decide everything, they will choose the easy way out every time.

[Lisabob]

Scoutldr, I agree with the gist of what you wrote, but I think I failed to make clear what I was referring to. We have an active troop of about 40 boys who do camp every month. Couch potato types who prefer their game boys, TVs, and pepsi do not tend to join our troop. But, a lot of what we do is the dreaded "car camping" and the older boys get a little lulled into a routine by that. And they seem to be hesitant about trying something else. What this Scouter in question is trying to do (and I agree with him) is to get some of our already-active older boys to try something a bit more challenging, as well as give them a chance to have some activities where the younger kids aren't involved (aka, avoid the "babysitting" complaint that older scouts tend to have). Ultimately he'd like to see the Venture Patrol do a longer "HA" trip like boundary waters or Philmont, but this is meant as a first step toward that goal.

 

Now, we could try to compel them to attend as you suggest but that would sort of defeat the purpose. Plus, I seriously doubt that the Scouter who is proposing these outings wants to chaperone a bunch of unwilling 13-17 year olds! My question is more about how to peak their interest and desire, rather than about how to force them to do an activity that they're not sure of.

 

 

[mtm25653]

Maybe my sons and their friends are atypical, but all the boys I know WANT to prove how strong they are. They want to show that they can do "hard" things, whether that is carrying a heavy bag or splitting wood or making it to the top of the mountain on a backpacking trip (yes, our troop calls it backpacking). Sometimes we have 2 trips combined- one short trip to the campsite (where there is something cool to see or do) and back, and a longer one around the mountain to the campsite and around the mountain back. The younger boys get a taste of the challenge and get to see/do the cool thing, and know that the harder challenge is waiting for them when they are a little older or bigger.

 

Make it a challenge - "I know this is hard, but I know you can make it."

 

But, DON'T tell a boy he is doing a great job hiking or backpacking when he is struggling - he knows he's not doing a great job. Just tell him that you are with him, and you will help him make it. (This from my 16 yo who once was that boy, and now has done 500+ miles including Philmont and 200 miles on the AT.)

[BrentAllen]

A couple of suggestions:

 

1. Introduce the shoe-box hike to the older boys. Set an age and rank that the boys must be to participate (1st Class, 14 y/o for example). On this hike, the boys are only allowed to take what they can get in a standard shoe box (all must use the same shoe box for measurement). This gets them thinking AND builds them up in the eyes of the younger Scouts ("you went camping with only THAT! Wow!"). They usually will take an extra large trash bag for a sleeping bag, ultralight tarp or plastic for a shelter, alcohol or other backpacking stove, small pot, space blanket for ground cloth, etc. It is a real challenge, but a real eye-opener when they see they don't need 50 lbs of gear to go camping. Obviously, the weather must be pretty nice - no real cold weather.

 

2. Boys are usually into gadgets and gear, and ultralight backpacking is all about that. Finding multiple ways to use equipment is a mental and physical challenge. The boys can make their own alcohol stoves from an aluminum drink can. Challenge them to see how much weight they can cut from their packed backpacks, and encourage them to share their ideas (cutting handles off tooth brushes, using plastic sporks from fast food restaurants). There are several web pages dedicated to this subject, as well as books. Ray Jardine is one of the pioneers in this area. The boys can make a lot of their gear, which gives them pride and saves them money. Once they make some gear, they will probably be anxious to go out and use it.

http://forums.backpacker.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/973107219

http://www.practicalbackpacking.com/forums/

 

Finally, take them some place scenic, some place they will be excited to talk about at the next Troop meeting.

[Beavah]

Yah, read older scout reluctance as a way of sayin'

 

"I'm not sure I'm going to be good at it."

 

It ain't fear of it not being fun, it's fear of not being successful. Sloggin' through miles of mud and real challenge is fun. What kids worry about is lack of success. I've seen da same thing for every kind of new adventure. If da troop mostly just car-camps, then the older boys who've stuck around are the ones who are successful at car-campin', eh? It's hard to move 'em out of that comfort zone without some assurance of success.

 

Do shorter backpack trips to fun destinations. Make it a challenge with encouragement and success. Then they'll start to generate their own enthusiasm. Start 'em younger, eh? Get off da car-campin' wagon earlier when they're more willin' to be led. Just be sure to make their "first contact" experience a success.

 

And follow Kudu's advice. Kids want adrenaline adventures, not nature strolls. Do "mountaineering" or "canyon country adventure" where backpackin' is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[John-in-KC]

First, I did my first 50 miler when I was 12 years old. That's right, 12.

 

I did my second a year later and my third a year after that.

 

There's nothing that says a properly equipped and conditioned youngster cannot do it, other than Philmont's age restriction. BTW, that appears to be rationing device, just like the draw is!

 

Part of the desire came from other kids and their fantastic slides (real kodachrome and ektachrome (tms)) of the backcountry. Part of it came from not wanting to be bored at Scout Camp.

 

How does the song go? "Anything you can do I can do better?" Challenge them! They just might surprise you.

[FScouter]

We've gotten boys to perk up by suggesting that "we don't need no stinkin' trail, we go cross-country."

[hot_foot_eagle]

Kudu's point about a little subterfuge is well made. I recently took a number of cub scouts on a hike in Southern IL, but had a turnout far below what I had hoped. In retrospect I probably scared off boys and parents because I used the word hike.

 

They boys who went had one of those "wow" moments when we stepped out of the woods and onto the cliffs (it's quite unlike our topography at home). So many of them ask me when we're going back that I think I could get those guys to hike anywhere now. You can bet they'll be the best advertising for our next hike - er, adventure.

 

For what it's worth, my very first campout as a boy scout was a 6 mile in-town night hike to a camporee. My troop went backpacking and we were expected to go. It wasn't until I became an adult that I discovered that scouting was done any other way.

 

[CA_Scouter]

Brent's suggestions are very good.

 

I would start by treating the next car camping trip as a backpacking trip.. that is, pack up like its backpacking, but stay at a local campground. And I mean EVERYTHING! Lightweight stoves, pots/pans, one pot meals, no ice chest, etc. That way they can start learning what they don't need to bring. Then get 'em started on the trail, do only a day hike, and make it a worthy destination ( swimming hole, fishing spot, waterfall, rock formations, etc. )..

 

Of course, design your preceding skillbases around backpacking techniques, i.e. .cooking, packing, hiking, etc.

 

For your first trip, make it a 2-4 miler... no 8-10 the first time... again, make it a worthwhile destination.

 

 

 

[Kudu]

Pick Two:

 

Start Small: GaHillBilly's son and the SPL is a perfect number to begin with: 2 Scouts, 2 adults, 1 car!

 

Start Short: Remember that the BSA removed the backpacking requirement from Camping Merit Badge, presumably because hiking 1.5 miles in each direction is too much to expect from an Eagle Scout, so consider 1/3 of the "impossible" 1.5 mile distance for your Troop's beginners :-)

 

Start Light: Go to the trouble of inspecting your beginners' packs the week before their first Wilderness Trek. Send home in a plastic bag all of the heavy objects they don't need (mouth wash, large tubes of toothpaste, more than two days' of clothes, entertainment centers, multiple large flashlights, etc.). Teach them to share, everybody does not need to bring their own bottle of bug spray, etc. This is not the time to "teach them a lesson" about how unpleasant a heavy pack can be.

 

Start with the End in Mind: Sell the destination, not the journey. Pleasure (fishing, etc.) or Fear (bears, rattlesnakes, high mountains, ghosts) is always more attractive -- at least until dusk :-) -- than the drudgery of bad words like "hiking" or "backpacking!" Of course the reason that Baden-Powell made a backpacking Journey of increasing difficulty a condition for every rank was to exposure Scouts to the spiritual experience that he called "The Religion of the Backwoods" (it is the journey not the destination that counts). B-P referred to his camping equipment as his "toys" and wrote "May it not be that our toys are the various media adapted to individual tastes through which men may know their God?"

 

Start with No Preconceptions: If the Troop's only eager Scouts are 10 or 11 years old, then start with them and base your trips on their abilities. Someday they will be your best Patrol Leaders.

 

Bribery is Your Friend: I always bring candy and a few pounds of home-made beef jerky while backpacking. Let regular backpackers (who do know how to pack light) make the decisions about mp3 players and all of the stuff that adults should not be deciding anyway.

 

Popularity Contest: My older Scouts are always surprised to discover that the adults (Committee Members, Commissioners, Council Instructors, etc.) that they consider "cool" are usually men (and one licensed female canoe guide) who hate car camping but are always up for a backpacking trip. Look for such charismatic outdoorsmen and invite them to a meeting to give a demonstration of their toys and backwoods camping techniques to your Troop with an offer to go on the next Wilderness Trek with them.

 

Peer Pressure is Your Friend: Likewise don't be above extending a sincere personal invitation to a couple of your Troop's most popular Scouts (a minimum of two who get along). Ask them point blank (individually) what it would take to get them to go on a Wilderness Trek. If your Troop elections are just popularity contests then so much the better! Limit a "Green Bar Wilderness Trek" to these popularity Patrol Leaders only and ask them what it would take to get them to go. Once you have them hooked, others will follow.

 

Adult-Run: Don't expect Scouts new to the wilderness to think of fun things to do there. Do your homework and Be Prepared with a list of proven suggestions. As Ernest Seton wrote more than 100 years ago "Not long ago a benevolent rich man, impressed with this idea, chartered a steamer and took some hundreds of slum boys up to the Catskills for a day in the woods. They were duly landed and told to 'go in now and have a glorious time.' It was like gathering up a net full of catfish and throwing them into the woods, saying, 'Go and have a glorious time.' The boys sulked around and sullenly disappeared. An hour later, on being looked up, they were found in groups under the bushes, smoking cigarettes, shooting 'craps,' and playing cards -- the only things they knew. Thus the well-meaning rich man learned that it is not enough to take men out of doors. We must also teach them to enjoy it."

 

Scout-Run: Let the Scouts pick out their own campsite, then have the adults camp AT LEAST Baden-Powell's recommended distance of 300 feet away (at night to begin with). The wilderness will bring out your Scouts' natural leadership abilities. They will develop their own traditions soon enough.

 

Role Models: Attend your Council's Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills course and/or High Adventure Training (even if you know it all). Network with the course instructors and other participants with the goal of finding a Troop that will allow you and a couple of your older Scouts to tag along on a backpacking trip so that your Scouts can observe and hang out with Scouts who think that the wilderness is fun.

 

Elitism: Hold regular Wilderness Treks, perhaps every 3 months (this becomes realistic when you start to include adults who despise car camping and only go backpacking). If only a couple Scouts attended the last Trek, then make a big deal out of a private meeting between them and the adult backpackers to plan the next trek while the rest of the Troop is doing something boring. Wilderness camping will soon reveal to you the strengths of the Scouts who attend. Develop the habit of asking for their opinion within their areas of expertise in front of the other Scouts. Exploit the phrase "with the Scoutmaster's approval" to blatantly favor for elected and appointed positions your Troop's best campers.

 

Blue Cards Likewise, be proactive about signing Camping Merit Badge Blue Cards only for Scouts that you know from your personal (backpacking!) experience to be ready, or limit your Troop's approved Camping Merit Badge Councilors list to adults who only go backpacking. Remember that in Traditional Scouting a Scout applies to the PLC for a "Blue Card" only after he has already mastered the material!

 

Kudu

 

 

[Lisabob]

I can't wait to share these ideas. Thank you all, and if you have more, please add them!

[Gonzo1]

Lisa,

i would (as much as possible) scrap the "car camping". Sure, go to Camp-o-ree and summer camp, but aside from those two events, make the other outings "backpacking". In other words, get better at backpacking by actually backpacking. Go camping, even "car" camping, just use the car to get you there, then, have EVERYONE carry their gear. The cars can take coolers, dutch ovens, etc. But, when everyone has to carry their own gear for 1.5 to 2 miles on Friday night AND Snday morning, they'll get better at it and reduce what they carry.

 

To stimulate more interest - try the shoe box plan, other plans, see who can carry the least weight, etc.

 

[kb6jra]

Lisabob,

 

Our troop car camps for the Camporee, Summer Camp, and 1 or 2 family camps. We bacpack everywhere else. We advertise this and make it a point to anyone interested in joining our troop so there's no misunderstanding.

 

We take our newest boys out on a car camp and introduce them to the methods we use in backpacking (along with their parents). Our first couple of back packs are 1 - 1.5 miles and are fantastic and fun. By the time they're 12-13 we take them to the Eastern Sierra and hike and fish. We design trips for ability levels. We try not to do too many advancement items while backpacking.

 

We sent a small contingent into the mountains this summer for 10 days. The group contacted a fly fishing guide to give them an hour's worth of instruction. The guide loved the boys and stayed for over 5 hours and declined to take any $$ for her efforts. The boys fly fished all week while on the trek and caught tons of fish. They brought back pictures, stories and infectous enthusiasm.

 

Take pictures of your trips and show them off as much as you can. When we had a meeting place of our own, the boys would all look at the story boards of HA trips past hung on the wall and brag "I remember going on that trip" or "Do you remember catching that fish?" and other rememberances. It gets the young boys turned on to the prospect of joining the elite group in the pictures.

 

Some boys and some adults for that matter will never like hiking of any kind. It's too physically demanding and they see no use in it. I had one boy in my WII den that didn't cross with the rest of the den, he went to another troop that didn't hike because he and his father decided that they would never walk more than a mile to do anything. He's a good kid, hiking is not for everyone is all.

 

Good luck and have fun with it.

[Gonzo1]

I just remembered, one of our posters says that nothing prepares you for in life than backpacking.