No One on One Contact

[LongHaul]

In another thread under the Open Discussion title a forum member quoted the AP story about the recent missing scout incident.

"Adults involved in the Boy Scouts are taught to follow 'Two Deep Leadership' which meandates that at least two adults be present for all camps, trips and outdoor activities. The organization prohibits one-on-one situations between a scout and an adult.

 

"But John Akerman, scout executive with the Raleigh-Durham area Occoneechee Council said it would make sense to leave one adult behind with one scout if the other scouts are with other adults on an activity."

 

My question to the forum is "How were you instructed to interperate and apply the No One on One Contact rule?" Just what specific conditions are used in reference to "within the view of other adults and youth"?

 

With the number of stories concerning the current incident and the conflicting information being offered I like for us not to use this present case as an example. Instead explain how you were taught, at leader training or YP training, to apply this rule.

LongHaul

[John-in-KC]

Real simple: Two deep leadership means at least FOUR DEEP LEADERSHIP. If one Scout must be taken out of pocket, there are still two to cover the balance of the activity.

 

You resource sufficient adults to the size of the activity.

 

It's called (drum roll please): The Buddy system. Do we really want an injured Scout being taken to hospital in a 1/1 situation, and having the LEADER get injured? Double trouble.

 

YIS.

 

 

[Eamonn]

I suppose in the perfect world what John-in-KC has posted would be true.

Sadly not only is it not true but it just don't work!!

Two deep leadership is required.

The "No one on one" is the key.

From the time a little Lad joins Cub Scouting we preach the buddy system.

While I don't want to make a point about what happened in NC. Mainly because I'm so very happy that the Lad is safe and sound.

Hindsight would say that 3 people should have been left in camp.

Ideally two adults, but failing that two Scouts and an adult.

During the Jamboree, we had a system when one leader from both of the Troops from the Council remained in camp at all times. Sadly the main reason was for security!

I didn't mind too much, it gave me the opportunity to wash my socks!!

If a lone Scout tried to return to the Troop Camp site without his buddy, I'd shoo him away telling him that he needed a buddy and in a not unkind way tell him that he needed a buddy at all times. Of course if two or more returned I was happy to have someone to chat with.

Ea.

[jr56]

Yes, at least 3 individuals must be present at all times, unless it is a father with his own son.

[EagleInKY]

I agree that in a perfect world, we'd have more than enough adults to accommodate every situation. John's approach of having 4 adults is great, but not perfect. Playing the "what if game" you can come up with endless opportunities to get into 1-on-1 situations. What if the team broke up for some reason (having two adults each) and then there was an injury and you had to split up again??? The point is that there is always a point where you may not have the coverage you need. I believe the underlying principle is to follow the scout motto, Be Prepared. Try to be prepared for most situations you run into.

 

For example, I try to have a minimum of three adults on a trip. That leaves us some outs if something happens. Sure, I'd like to have four, and often do. But three is my minimum.

 

I believe we can also all understand that there is a difference in emergency situations and planned activities. Let's say three scouts and two adults head out on a day hike. A serious injury happens to one of the boys. You're going to have to have a 1-on-1 situation (unless you send the two remaining scouts alone). In this case, breaking the YP rules makes sense, and I believe any reasonable person would understand that.

 

In this particular case in NC, it doesn't sound like an emergency to me. I believe the only reasonable alternatives were to either force the lad to go, or have another scout stay back as well.

 

I've had adult leaders in my troop break the rule. I've called them on it when they did. For example, we had a homesick kid at summer camp one year. He walked back with one of the adult leaders to the campsite. This was a mistake on the part of the adult. He and I disagreed on it, but I made it clear to not let it happen again. In that situation, he should have grabbed another adult to go with him so it wasn't 1-on-1.

[funscout]

I agree that there certainly could come a time when immediate health and safety issues trump the Youth Protection rules. For non-emergency situations, however, scouts might just have to be disappointed in missing out on an activity if there aren't enough leaders.

 

Last weekend our troop went out to hang labelled bags on houses for Scouting for Food. One driver only had 2 boys in his vehicle, and when one of the boys was taken home by his Dad, the driver immediately called me on my cell phone, as I was closest to his location. I had room for another boy, so I took the lone scout with my other boys, rather than have a one-on-one situation with the other leader.

 

I know of pastors who never ride in a car alone with an unrelated female, for similar reasons. I also normally drove home our teenaged girl babysitters, not because I didn't trust my husband, but because I didn't want any opportunity for him to be falsely accused of something. Oh, for the days when we didn't have to worry about such things!!

[GernBlansten]

Frankly, YPT is not about youth protection. Its adult protection.

Any adult with malfeasance in his/her mind, will not follow YPT and will accomplish it despite our best intentions with YPT. Having another set of eyes and ears gives us plausible deniability. Without it, its our word against theirs. We will always lose.

 

[scoutldr]

There are three basic concepts to YP.

 

1. No one on one contact.

2. Two deep leadership.

3. Buddy system.

 

These are minimum requirements and are not mutually exclusive, as mentioned above. If the buddy system had been enforced here, it would be explained to the scout, that if you don't go, your buddy doesn't go either because an adult can't be your buddy. That's the way it is, so the two of you work it out and let me know your decision. This is a "teaching moment" for safety, negotiation, courteous, kind, help other people, etc. If the scout can't find a buddy for the next trip, then Dad will have to attend.

 

 

[SSScout]

Gern:

 

So, the "Adult Protection Guidlines" require:

1) Scoutmaster conferences in the corner of the meeting room, one on one, with lots of other eyes around.

2)Always have a buddy. Either another adult or two or more boys around. One adult driver and two or more boys in the car. One adult takes the injured boy to the hospital with THREE boys or one other adult(?).

3) "You have a pet wolf, a chicken and a bag of grain and must cross the river in a boat that is very small..."

4) BoRs are multi adults and one boy.

5) Our meeting place put windows in ALL the doors in the place (even the janitor closet and furnace room).

6) Can one adult take multiple boys on the hike? No. Can Two adults take multiple boys on a hike? Maybe but... Need three for good procedure.

7) Maybe we should encourage boy only (patrol) hikes...

8) etc. usw.

 

It's still worth it.... YiS

[LongHaul]

EagleInKY brought up a prime example of what I was talking about. As a YP presenter for my district I fully agree that the adult in this case acted foolishly but was it a violation of the rule? Lets look at the rule first, what it says is that you must be in view of other adults and youth. Was this adult in view of other adults and youth as he walked back to the site? Was this adult in view of other adults and youth after he arrived at the site, providing the adult did not enter a secluded area with the boy? Just how close do the other adults and youth have to be? Yes we all have our own interpretations but what does the rule actually say and demand? You are at an American Football stadium for the purpose of having football match. All the adults other than you are acting as field officials and all the boys save one is on the field of play. You are seated behind one of the goal posts talking to this youth when the play on the field heads for the other goal line. At what point do you become out of view of other adults and youth? As I said I tell leaders to never get in this type of position in the first place but it happens. What I have been told by my former SE follows along with what the SE in the missing scout case said. I was told that the rule meant not to arrange to be secluded from other people while with a youth. No 1 on 1 in a car, private meetings, on an outing where you would not expect other people to be. If someone passing by the camp site would have been able to see the leader and the scout the its not 1 on 1. Im in full view even when no one is there to view. Risky? YES! Smart ? NO! in keeping with the rules?

By the way I dont mention the explanation I got from the SE when doing YP. No 1 on 1 means no 1 on 1. If you cant see other people and HEAR other people, if they are not seeing you and cant hear you if they choose to then youre setting yourself up for problems.

LongHaul

 

[Eamonn]

Youth Protection and the trainings that we have are good and worth while.

I however at times worry that some people go over the top.

Of course we need to do what we can to protect the youth we serve and ourselves.

If everything went as it should all the time our Scouts would never forget to go anywhere without their buddy. Adults would never ever in a million years get placed in a situation where you and a youth are the only people around.

Still at times this can and does happen.

I have lost count of the number of times I have stopped for a pee at camp in the mens room only to have a lone Scout stand next to me!

I can't fit 3 adults and the Sea Scouts in our small boat!!

When I'm giving my wise words to a Scout who has strayed from the paths of righteousness, I'm happy to do it in plain view, but there are times when what is said is best kept between the two of us. I really don't want to embarrass him or her any more than I have to.

We all need to do our best to keep within the guidelines.

Still when we present the training we need to be very careful we present it in such a way that it comes across as being a wise and wonderful thing not something that is going to scare the beejeebers out of people.

Ea.

[GernBlansten]

I've walked into a latrine and found a sole scout. I do a 180 and stand outside until the scout is gone. Won't risk it no matter how much my middle aged prostrate complains.

I've woken from a nap in my camp chair and found myself alone with a single scout. I immediately get up, and walk away. I might remind the scout as I'm leaving that he needs a buddy, but I'm outta there.

 

Nothing will ruin your life like an unsubstantiated claim by a irrational youth. I follow YPT because it protects me more than it does the youth.

[scoutldr]

At our camp, youth and adults use separate facilities. Ditto what Gern said.

[Beavah]

Yah, Gern has the right sense of it, eh? No one-on-one is an Adult/Organization liability protection rule, not so much a youth protection rule. We all recognize that once we've made a predator into an ASM/SM/coach/teacher/minister or other "trusted adult" in the kids' eyes, we've provided access that no policy solution will ever protect against.

 

So we each need to decide what our level of risk tolerance is. The chance of a false accusation is really very, very small, but the consequences are very large. For me, and I hope for most scouters, I prefer not to let fear keep me from doin' what is sensible and right for kids. So I act pretty much the way Eamonn describes. I'm alert to the issue, and I make my choices consciously with open eyes.

 

Yah, as da case with young Michael Auberry shows, we all take risks by volunteering in a youth program, eh? If I'm going to assume those risks, I might as well do the job for kids as best as I know how, and not short change the Adult Association method because of fear.

 

[John-in-KC]

Two comments:

 

First, LH asked how we were taught. What I stated is how my District YP trainer taught me. She's had the job for years, stays current, and continues to preach the party line.

 

Second, I tend to agree with Beavah... but I'm going to use what's left of "mentally awake" mind to make good calls. Truth be told, there are a lot of times I use the stall so I have a moment of privacy from youth. That way well, anything else is TMI

 

Frankly, we need to resource activities with enough adults to get the job done. Now that said, that's also a running problem. I don't care if the organization is Scouting, HS band, or pop warner FB, getting enough adult support is always a challenge.