Sharing wilderness survival info

[BarryD]

After the tragedy that took the life of Mr. James Kim in Oregon I've been following many of the blogs and articles that have been written offering both criticism of his actions and advice on how to avoid the same fate.

 

I'd like to encourage Scouters to offer their expertise and training in matters of wilderness survival and emergency preparedness whenever the opportunity arises. The number of ill-informed and newly minted experts in these areas is stunning. Everyone suddenly seems to have acquired years of experience in how to survive such a situation, and are falling all over themselves in trying to produce the definitive guide. I suspect the bulk have never spent a single night of their lives in a tent that was more than 30 feet off of a paved road and within spitting distance of a shower stall, yet they're comfortable telling others how to live through a natural or self-inflicted disaster.

 

For those who have the time or the inclination, when you spot bogus or incomplete advice in the newspaper or on the 'net, would you take a minute to correct it or clarify it? The last one I replied to was the "Tie plastic garbage bags around your tennis shoes when hiking out in the snow". Duh. My response was to the effect that if you're in an area where there's a possibility that you'll be in the snow on foot, pack a pair of waterproof, insulated boots and leave the plastic bags for the leaves in your backyard.

 

Anyway, Scouters have the miles under their belts, the nights in tents, the busted knuckles, and the training to actually help straighten some of this out as they encounter it. It may help someone who otherwise may be getting bad advice. Thanks.

[resqman]

One website that has stood the test of time, has excellent information presented in a clear and concise manner, field tested procedures and products as well as is active in undertaking real world testing of new survival related products is "Equipped to Survive". http://www.equipped.com/

 

There are many pages designed especially for under kids and scouts. Doug Ritter has been very responsive to any suggestions and email I have sent.

 

I higly recommend this site for anyone who has any interest in survival.

[packsaddle]

As the father of a child who had an extreme survival experience, I can add that in addition to the hardware that makes survival more likely, a clear mind in possession of knowledge skills is the most important tool. In this unit, 'Be Prepared' is not a motto taken lightly.

[SR540Beaver]

BarryD,

 

Welcome to the campfire!!! Please feel free to pull up a log, have a seat and a cup of joe.

 

I shudder every time one of these stories appears in the news. I've never been in an extreme survival situation and never want to be. Just imagining what it would be like is enough to send shivers down my spine. Being an insulin dependent diabetic, I have to plan everytime I go outdoors away from home. I can't just take off on a little nature hike from our scout campsite without making sure I have the supplies I need to literally keep me out of danger. We need to do that anytime we are traveling regardless of what time of year it is or what our health condition is. Hot or cold, it is easy to get in trouble fast when you are out of civilization.

 

There have been two schools of though on Mr. Kim out in the internet world. One is that he was a hero and the other was that he was grossly irresponsible in his actions. All it takes is one bad judgement call to put even a seasoned survivalist in danger. Mr. Kim (God rest his soul) made a number of bad mistakes. He was warned against taking a scenic trip thru the area he went into. When he kept getting deeper and deeper into the wilderness, he didn't turn back and go back the way he came. He was not carrying the things he needed to survive in the kind of environment he took his family into. He didn't tell anyone where he was going and the route being taken. They are all mistakes any of us could make. Any of us could lose our life just as quickly as he did.

 

My hope is always that people will remember these sad stories anytime they decide to venture out or decide to take a quick detour off the beaten path.

 

Another story that always comes to mind is the experienced hiker who went out solo, had a boulder fall and pin him and had to cut his own arm off with a pocket knife to survive. Simply letting someone know where he was going and when he would be back.......or taking a buddy or two along would have most likely saved his arm.

[BarryD]

"Welcome to the campfire!!! Please feel free to pull up a log, have a seat and a cup of joe."

 

Thanks. Don't mind if I do.

 

The troubling aspect of the Kim story is that he probably did everything he knew how to do in order to survive and protect his family, but it wasn't enough to save him. Fortunately his wife and children are alive.

 

As you point out, there were bad choices made. As a mountaineering friend (and SM)of mine told me when I asked why he had no interest in climbing Everest..."You can do everything exactly right and Everest will still kill you." Not that James Kim did everything right, but it points out that the margin of error is very, very slim in certain circumstances. One has to understand the consequences of their actions and be prepared if those actions lead to an emergency situation, simple as that.

 

I've been in a couple of situations that could have turned out badly. Getting separated from my buddy while elk hunting, and getting stranded on the Colorado River and having to hike out 10 miles. It really doesn't take much to go from pleasant afternoon in the outdoors to "Uh oh", even for those who are comfortable in the wilderness.

 

We, as Scouters, need to respectfully utilize events to educate and encourage the public to take action to prevent or minimize the misery of disaster situations. I read about the recent ice storms in the midwest and the resultant power outages that have lasted for days and days and wonder how many were truly prepared. Our Fieldbook, our merit badge pamphlets, and our online resources are about as good as it gets for helping friends and neighbors learn the basics of taking care of themselves. (And to keep them out of our stash of emergency food and libation)

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Barry,

 

For some odd reason, my wife is fascinated with Everest and we've been watching the Discovery Channel program about the group climbing Everest. One is an ashmatic who is determined to climb it without the aid of oxygen. Another is a guy who lost both legs to frostbite during his years mountaineering. These guys pay $40,000 for the privilege of tempting fate. Everytime we watch it, I tell my wife that those guys are morons! There are plenty of other ways to find out what you are made of without risking near certain death or going the rest of your life without a nose.

 

Desperation will make us do some mighty dumb things. Our inclination is to get ourselves out of a jam, especially if we have loved ones we have also placed in harms way. The best rule of thumb by most search and rescue folks is to stay put. It is easier to hit a stationary target than a moving target. Of course, that is supposing that people have a fairly good idea of where you went missing. In the Kim's situation, it was good old detective work of backtracking their known destinations thru credit cards and such that allowed searchers to get an idea of where they might be. Even though it took a while, the wife and children who stayed put were rescued and Kim was not.

[BarryD]

Anyone know these people? Bet ya do... (takes a few seconds for the video to start. You need your speaker on)

 

http://jacrex1.multiply.com/video/item/10

[kenk]

I'll echo the recommendation to spend some time at http://www.equipped.org .

 

Doug Ritter is the executive director of the not-for-profit Equipped To Survive Foundation, whose focus is on saving lives through proper education and preparation about survival and emergencies.

 

Regarding the James Kim event, Doug pointed out that a 406 MHz personal locator beacon (PLB) would have gotten them rescued promptly - probably in a matter of a day, if not just hours.

 

I'd encourage Scout leaders who take Scouts on remote adventures - and anyone who travels in remote areas outside of normal mobile phone range - to consider including a PLB in their gear.

 

They are a bit expensive ($600), but it could be a small price to pay if someone becomes severely injured days away from help/rescue.

 

As a young man out of college I went on a trip through the Boundary Waters with a small group - three canoes with four men and two women. At one point two of the men started messing around with a tree that had fallen on top of anothe tree. They were climbing the tree and cutting limbs in a foolhearty (hindsight is 20/20) attempt to free the other tree. In hindsight I can easily imagine one of them falling to the ground or severely cutting themselves in the "fun". We were easily 2-3 full days of hard paddling/portaging from the nearest help. On top of that, one of those men was the only person who really knew where we were (yeah, I know that was foolish - that was way before GPS's were around).

 

This summer my family will be traveling through Glacier National Park. Our PLB will be with us ... just in case.

 

Equipped.org has quite a bit of information/reviews on PLB's if you'd like more information.

[packsaddle]

Right now, the story on Mt. Hood is the one I'm interested in. I hope someone gets out of that alive but I'm not optimistic.

[SR540Beaver]

Pack,

 

Amen to that. Having said that, let me say this.....and I don't want to sound petty about it. What the heck were they thinking??? These guys are supposed to be highly experienced mountain climbers. They pick December to make a light and fast ascent and get caught in a storm. What is it about folks these days who want to be "extreme" and tempt fate and death in search of thrills and bragging rights. If and when they are found...hopefully alive...I hope they are charged every dime that the search and rescue cost to get them. Their actions show about as much intelligence as driving into water over a submerged road. Wouldn't it make sense to climb the mountain in non-winter months when your survivability is greatly increased if something goes wrong?

[BarryD]

"What the heck were they thinking???"

 

Good question. It would be interesting to hear from some SAR people, along with mountaineers and mountain rescue team members. I logged onto one mountain climbing site, but the language was a bit too salty even for this old roughneck. I'd like to hear what the people who are called upon to perform these rescues have to say about it all.

 

Incidentally for resqman...

My wife sez to tell you thanks for NOTHING. She was hoping for something a bit more romantic in her Christmas stocking than the cool PLB I tracked down from your equipped.com link. I blamed it all on you guys.

[GernBlansten]

There are two entirely different stories in Oregon.

First one is a true tragedy, where one individuals inability to make good decisions in desperate times, cost him his life.

 

The second one is a bit different. Three experienced mountaineers take an educated risk. They knew what they were getting into. I have true concern over their well-being, but their struggle is not a tragedy. It is the natural culmination of their thrill seeking lifestyle.

 

Personally, in the case of the latter, I don't think search and rescue should risk life and limb to rescue these folks. They made their bed, now they must sleep in it.

 

PS, I used to be one of these mountaineers. If I every found myself in need of rescue, I think I would have rather died than be able to self-rescue myself. My expection of being rescued by others was non-existant nor expected. Frankly, it was part of the appeal.

[Beavah]

If I every found myself in need of rescue, I think I would have rather died than [not] be able to self-rescue myself.

 

Yah, exactly.

 

That's my problem with PLB's, GPS-dependent hikers, those that call 911 on their cell phone with no map or compass and say "help I'm lost" and novices who pay to have a guide haul them up Everest.

 

All these things do is increase the number of ill-prepared people who expect it's other's people's jobs to rescue them from their own foolishness.

 

We especially should be teachin' people how to be responsible wilderness users. Responsible for ourselves, first of all. And havin' enough "reserve" left over to responsible for assisting others in need. Physically strong, mentally awake enough to help others.

 

SAR folks don't mind goin' after the well prepared, intelligent risk-takers who get in a pickle. Most of 'em are part of the same club. It's the expectation of goin' after the buffoons that's tough.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Gern, I tend to agree with one caveat. I did most of my fool-hardy things BEFORE I had a family. I didn't get the Darwin award so I eventually did reproduce. Today, if I pulled a fool-hardy stunt, the tragedy (as you note) would not be what happened to me but rather what my family would suffer as a result. Those guys on Mt. Hood are in danger but their families are the real tragedy waiting to happen. My 2 cents.

[SR540Beaver]

Pack,

 

You'd like to think that some of these thrill seekers would get a wake up call after a close brush with death and cool it a little. However, on the Discovery Channel's program about Everest, there is one mountaineer who lost his legs to frostbite while climbing who is now attepting to climb Everest with prosthetic legs. I guess it has to do with climbing back up on the horse when you get thrown. I still say it is crazy.