Privacy and D.L. Numbers

[eagle90]

With all the new privacy policies we are overwhelmed with every day, we are getting some static from parents about supplying driver's license numbers to us for tour permits. Nowadays social security numbers and DL numbers are blocked in most cases to prevent identity theft, etc. We already have the name, type of car, and insurance information about the drivers. Why is the DL number necessary? How would you respond to these people other than "That's how we always do it". I tend to agree with them, it seems superfluous. Thanks for your ideas!

[FScouter]

You could instead ask drivers to submit a current state department of motor vehicles report of their driving record. They could black out the number if they don't want to disclose it.

 

The point is, you don't want entrust somebody else's kid to a driver with no license, suspended license, or a string of moving violations.

[scoutingagain]

Jeesh. The whole point of state's changing their DL numbers to something other than Soc. Sec. numbers is to address folks privacy concerns. The DL numbers shouldn't be tied to anything but their driving record and as Fscouter points out, the fact that they have a valid license. If the BSA is going to provide them supplemental insurance, the BSA has a right to know the driver has a valid license. If they are transporting a group of scouts, and get into an accident, and three scouts end up needing medical care for life, do they carry enough insurance to cover that under their own policy?

 

Next people will complain about having to give their names.

 

SA

 

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

Ditto ScoutingAgain's post. Exactly what I was going to say. C'mon people, it's your Driver's License number. It's not (supposed to be) used for anything else.

[Beavah]

I know for a fact that no one in our council or the regional office ever does a DL search based on a tour permit. It might be used for part of the background check for when an adult submits an application for registration, but I think they only use SSN.

 

So given that it isn't used, seems like a bit of an invasion to collect it. If they're worried about individual insurance coverage, which is reasonable in states that don't have mandatory coverage laws, then they should ask for the insurance carrier and policy number, not the DL. And in states with mandatory coverage, it's also a waste of time.

 

I'm with eagle90. Da tour permit drivin' list is just bureaucratic make-work. Amounts to no more than a legal fig leaf, if that.

 

As far as usin' the DL for other things, it's by far the most pervasive identity card. Used for everything includin' opening a bank account, cashing a check, rentin' a truck to fill with fertilizer, etc. All kinds of ways to do mischief with someone's DLN.

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

So, playing devil's advocate, what happens after I write my DL number on the tour permit? Does the nice lady at Council have access to the DMV computer? Does she look up every DL to check the driving records before stamping the tour permit? How many moving violations can I have before the tour permit is denied?

[FScouter]

The nice lady at the council office is responsible to look over the tour permit for evidence the unit has not adequately planned its outing. The absence of DL numbers and insurance info tends to indicate not. It is the responsibility of the unit committee to approve drivers and to ensure that they are licensed, insured, and drive safe vehicles. A driver that wont provide insurance info and a DL number may not be a person you want driving the kids under your care.

[nldscout]

In our council in NY the Office was going to start checking DL's on Some tour permits, until they found out that the State of NY wanted $7.00 for each records check. So that was scrapped real quick.

[scoutingagain]

Well I'll admit I've never tried this and don't intend to. But if others want to do so and let us know how they make out I'd be interested.

 

Submit a tour permit without the DL numbers and insurance info. If you get a signed permit back, that would imply to me the council doesn't feel the information is needed to officially acknowledge the outing as a scouting event. If you don't get a permit back, or the council asks for the information before they issue a permit that would seem to me it is information they feel they need to issue a tour permit and acknowledge the event as a scouting event.

 

Units are free to participate in all the non-scouting events they want to, just don't expect the BSA's insurance to cover you if you are not participating in a scouting event. You might want to let your CO know your taking their unit on non-scouting outings as well, because they may want to consider increasing their liability insurance. Or as a leader taking scouts on non-scouting events you might want to consider increasing your own liability insurance.

 

SA

[FScouter]

What is a non-scouting event?

[nldscout]

yea, that would be my question too. What is a non-scouting event?

 

If its planned at troop meetings, discussed in committee, and only involves scouts with troop assests, that would make it a scouting event.

 

as far as DL number, at least in NY, it does not cross over to SSN in any system I know. I don't see as DL number is a biggie, if you go to store to cash check they write the number on the check in a lot of places. But it is just a number thats all. And if the rest of the states are like NY, the records are hopelessly out of date anyway.

[scoutingagain]

Well in the context of my last post, a "non-scouting" event or more precisely outing would be one in which a members of a BSA unit plan and participate in, but do not get a council tour permit for. Either because the council doesn't give them one based on the information, or lack thereof, on the application or they don't apply for one.

 

The more precise term may have been "non-permitted scout outing", not in the sense the outing is not permitted under the G2SS, but in the sense the council has not issued a tour permit.

 

The point is the BSA or council is not likely to track a unit down, or show up with a SWAT team at a unit assembly point and prevent them going on an outing if all the drivers havn't provided a DL number and insurance info. But, I don't know if they will grant a tour permit if that information is not provided and I suspect there may be consequences for those units that undertake outings for which they do not get a valid tour permit, such as not being covered by BSA insurance. However, the lack of insurance coverage is not likely to relieve an individual or the CO of liability if an injury occurs on such an outing.

 

Like I said, I don't know if a tour permit would be issued if you don't provide DL numbers or Insurance info on the application. If a council is willing to issue a permit without that information, they must not think it is very important. If they won't issue a permit without that information, it must have some importance to them in the sense it gives them the legal fig leaf they need to issue the permit. The permit indicates that the council is aware of the outing, that the unit has told them they will transport scouts with licensed drivers that carry the minimum requirements for insurance, and that any excess coverage needed in the event of an accident would be covered by the Council's insurance. At least that's one interpretation I have.

 

Like I said, folks don't have to give the DL numbers if they don't want to. They are free to transport scouts anywhere they want in whatever fashion they want. Just don't expect a BSA council to be willing to issue a tour permit which at the very least documents a good faith effort to comply with the BSA G2SS rules and implys the council will provide additional insurance coverage.

 

SA(This message has been edited by scoutingagain)

[evmori]

There is nothing to stop someone from putting down a phony DL number & insurance info on a tour permit. And since it isn't checked, no one would know. Not a good thing.

 

A non-Scouting event is one that has nothing to do with Scouting!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10