A scout is trustworthy?

[yarrow]

This is a awkward question because I do not know all the facts first hand. Last semester a Chemistry test was inappropriately passed around the school purportedly by a boy in our troop (I think it likely) who took the test early. All the grades for this class were nullified and a new test was given because many people had copies and no one could be sure who knew about the test when the rest of the classes took it later. I know my 10th grader paid for this cheating behavior as did many others who did well on the first and not as well on the second. The boy has since been "kicked out" of the International Baccalauriate program. My question is should I let the SM know and how? It certainly doesn't meet with my idea of scout trustworthiness. I have been on the fence about the problem because I do not have the information first hand but from a number of students. Children of friends and of course both my High Schoolers.

[jmcquillan]

I guess that while I understand your concerns, I'd have to side with "innocent until proven guilty". Second or third hand information (hearsay), which is what yours would be to the SM, isn't usually reliable enough. If you had seen him yourself, or had a couple of Scouts who had, and would be willing to tell their tale, that might be reason to go to the SM. But even then, would that be grounds for the SM or the troop to take any action?

 

 

[Eman]

Is it your or your troops opinion that if you break a point of the Scout Law you are thrown out of Scouts?

[Bob Russell]

I sometimes hear of problems that our scouts may have been involved in. Depending on the transgression, I will sometimes, as Scoutmaster, discuss the matter privately (within the rule of not being alone with a scout). This is not done to penalize or discipline the scout, but to reinforce that the Scout Law and Oath are not just items to recite, but guidelines for life. I find that the scouts will usually admit the transgression, and a productive discussion will take place, with the goal to reinforce proper behavior in and out of scouting. I believe the key is to not punish or embarrass in these situations, but to treat them as learning opportunities.

[eisely]

I agree with Bob Russell's way of handling similar matters when they come to his attention. I also agree with jmcquillan that it would be inappropriate to raise the subject to the scoutmaster based on hearsay. If the scoutmaster should ask you if you know anything about the controversy then that is another matter.

[FScouter]

I would appreciate knowing any rumors flying around about my Scouts. I would hope others would believe I have enough good sense to not rush to judgement on hearsay accusations. Just because nothing is proven doesn't mean the Scoutmaster should be kept in the dark.

[yarrow]

I didn't intend to sound harsh, but I am relatively sure the information is correct. I am not sure what our policy is for boys who break the law or cheat in school. The punishment, if any(which I imagine will be the case), would be up to the SM and I don't believe he would bring it to the attention of the committee or boys. I'm not sure what the point of that would be anyway. However; this is not some elementary age kid, this is a 16 year old Life Scout. This was deliberate cheating with forthought, not just peeking at someone else's paper for your own benefit, which would be bad enough. I wonder now....do we have Eagles that have cheated, lied, harrassed, bullied, or broken laws?

[jmcquillan]

Yarrow,

 

In answer to the last query in your post, generally I'd bet that, yes, there are, somewhere, Eagles who have transgressed. Hopefully, that number is quite small.

 

As to the bulk of your post, actions, if any, taken by the troop, would have to be taken on the basis of real hard evidence and facts, not hearsay from second or third parties. To me that means that unless the schools take action, the troop should not. And the schools are not very likely to share information with the troop, so the troop would have to make its own best judgement on what happened and how much of a transgression against the Scout Oath and Law there was. Tough row to hoe, there. As the schools would give you nothing, all you might have is the public actions known to all and seen by all. Still no "hard" evidence, but certainly reason for concern. Myself, I'd probably look upon this as an issue for which the Scoutmaster conference, at the least, was the appropriate choice to start with. Actions beyond that would have to be based on any admissions of guilt directly from the young man, and perhaps a conference with the Scout and his parents. Outside of that, it's still second hand information. Kicking him out of the troop? That's a tough one. He's set a pretty bad example for all to see, and that will stick with him for a long while. Some kids will see him as a local folk hero, but that will hopefully be a minority, and pass quickly. Others will know that he's not all that he could have been. Still, is this reason to remove him from Scouting? Tough question.

 

As to the punishment, and where it should come from, I don't know that I'd agree that the SM has total and complete say and control there. Rather, I think that the SM would be responsible for taking his thoughts to the Committee, and having it discussed there. If the committee as a whole, or a good majority, agreed with the SM and his thoughts on the matter, then the SM would be free to exercise authority. But taking the bull by the horns by himself, without committee input, at the least, might only make matters worse, for all.

 

 

 

[yarrow]

You are right JMc......tough call as to whether to kick him out of the troop. I have heard of troops that have after a suspension kept thieves. Go figure. The SM knows this boy, as he has been in the troop 5-6 years. A talk with the boy should be able to get him the facts. I would hope the troop after a suspension would keep him in, after all Scouts should be a good supportive moral and value based experience. I don't know if he should be advanced though. And the school did take action. He was thrown out of the IB program. Don't know if he was suspended but over a hundred students paid for his cheat.

[sctmom]

My two cents worth -- don't kick him out.

 

He made a mistake, yes he should have known better and probably did know better. He is being punished at school.

 

Are you going to kick out every scout who accepted the test answers? I hope not.

 

Kicking him out of Scouts for this one infraction is telling him Scouting doesn't care. I think a Scoutmaster conference would suffice. Does he feel remorse? Does he understand why it was wrong? What will he do next time when put in a situation like this?

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

[yarrow]

Kicking him out would not be a good choice.........as I said Scouting is a place where he can be guided in making moral and ethical choices. However a "firm" talking to seems not enough. I would support a suspension from the next few fun activities and requested community service considering the magnitude of his poor choice. Thanks for your input all. I will carry this to the SM and see what he thinks is best.

[sctmom]

Perhaps some community service involving education?

Such as tutoring, a book drive, recording books on tape for the blind, reading to youngsters.

 

 

[evmori]

Don't kick him out. I have always said the kids who really need the program are these kind of kids! He made a mistake, based on the hearsay. I would try to find out if this is fact or fiction then have a general discussion on what Trustowrthy means to the Scouts. A Troop meeting would be a good venue.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[yarrow]

I really like you suggestion on a piece at the meeting on what trustworthiness means. I'll pass it along. THanks.

[yarrow]

I ran the problem by the SM. He has known the boy for years and thought that it might be youthful indescretion and that he would think it over, try and check the facts and perhaps speak to him. THe SM is a wonderful, kind and thoughtful man. I am sure he will make a good decision and I don't intend to further make it my business anyway. Thanks for the input.