campout-tempest in a teapot

[baden]

In the vein of "NO good deed goes unpunished", I seek input from the forum. This weekend our Troop had a monthly campout. No big deal, Sat. overnight in a public wildlife habitat area. We did a service project for the area and the Ranger was pleased with our efforts. He was complimentary about how much work the boys got done and how well they worked together.

In fact he came out Sat. night and brought some ice cream for the boy's peach cobbler and spent some time around the campfire talking to the boys about wildlife habitat and management. Totally unplanned, just a neat thing.

 

When the PLC was getting their plans together after the last Troop Mtg. one of the Patrol Leaders told me that attendance might be light because a lot of the boys wanted to stay home to watch a college football game Sat. night. This Patrol Leader asked if it would be OK to bring a radio to listen to the game. He had talked to a bunch of the boys and they said they'd go if they could listen to the game. A couple of years ago we listened to a World Series game on Sat. night, but this is not our normal modus operandi. A parent came out Sat. night while we were all sitting around the campfire listening to the game. She stood there for a few minutes and then said she wanted to talk to me, so I walked her back to her car. She was very upset that we were wasting her sons time with listening to a football game when we could be using the time to better advantage. I said she was probably right, but sometimes you have to let up a little and just live. I thought that was the end of it, but oh no. The Troop Comm. Chair called me Sunday night to tell me he had received a call from this Mom and she wanted things straightened out or her son would no longer be in this Troop. She is demanding a Troop policy that there be no more listening to sporting events on campouts. As I said, this is the second time in about 3 years we have done this and I think that a policy is overkill. Another thing is that we have a lot of sports nuts in the Troop and a little male bonding around the campfire, listening to the game might be a good thing to ensure longevity in the Troop. I might also add that this boy is home schooled and apart from Church, this is his only activity outside of the home. I don't know if his Mother thinks I'm going to start making book on campouts or what.

 

What does the forum think? I like this kid and would hate to lose him, but my back is up a little about being pushed around. Is listening to a game a big no-no with other units?

[SR540Beaver]

I've known a few home schooling families and boys. I have nothing against them if that is what they want to do. It has been my experience that these families are usually over achievers with extremely high standards for their children to live up to. Again, their choice. I think a written troop policy is a bit of overkill. I think allowing it on a rare occasion....depending on what the program was earlier in the day.....would be good as long as boys don't come to expect it. If they have been on their best behavior and are all doing well in their patrols and in advancement and actively participated in whatever the campouts program is, sure why not. I think it would be better to let folks know up front so you don't catch flak on the back side.

 

I will say that I don't think our SM would ever do this...and he is a HUGE football fan of one of our state college teams. He gets antsy about boys bringing chairs to camp and sitting around and doing nothing. They can do that at home. We have a planned program with a schedule designed by the PLC for every campout. The adults are taking their valuable time to get the boys to the outing and facilitating the program and he doesn't want to see them sitting. I think he would have problems with listening to a game too. Heck, I know he would.

 

My suggestion, do it once a year if at all as a deserved treat and let people know that it will happen.

[kenk]

I can do you one better. This month there was an "Illini Camporee" where a huge group of Scouts took time from their campout to actually GO to a Univeristy of Illinois football game. Unfortunately our troop could not attend, but I would have been there if I could.

 

I'll quote the Beav: "The boys decide and the adults facilitate and mentor". I really like this and so long as the this kind of activity isn't specifically prohibited by existing troop rules I see no problem with it.

 

Be strong. Maybe you could passify the parent by making a rule that this kind of activity will happen no more than X times per year.

[scottteng]

Guilty as charged. I resemble this remark over achieving home schooler but tell the moms to stay home. Our troop which is mostly home schoolers by design wants to play manhunt running at full speed through unfamiliar woods and do not understand why we wish to restrict this practice. Wanting to listen to a football game would be a distinct pleasure. Much better than the really stupid skits jokes and songs that the boys come up with to entertain themselves around the campfire. Come on mom its dark thirty how much more do we need to do?

[CalicoPenn]

If you weren't listening to the game around the campfire on Saturday night, what would you have been doing?

 

Once you start making rules for situations like this, whether it be a ban or a once a year "treat", it becomes easier to make rules for every little thing that upsets someone. Are you prepared to make a rule banning pickup football games because "little Johnny's mommy doesn't want him to play football" or other such things?

 

It sounds like you have a well-run BOY-run Troop - in fact, I'd praise that Patrol Leader who saw a challenge with attendance, polled his patrol to see if there was a way to solve the challenge, and suggested it at the PLC meeting - sounds like SPL material to me!

 

If it were me, I would recommend to the Committee Chair that the committee take no action until the issue was brought up to the PLC to get their input - The boys may choose to limit radio listening to special occasions (a World Series game, a College Football game (any particular reason the boys were willing to stay home for this game? Maybe someone's brother was playing, or a former Troop member, or ???). Once the boys make their feelings on the issue known, I would hope the committee would stande behind the boys, and if it goes against one parent's wishes, make it clear that it is a boy-run operation, that the committee supports that effort, that they are glad his/her son is in the unit, that the boy likes being in the unit, and that they hope he/she will stick with them.

 

And maybe you could suggest to the boys that as part of listening to the radio, a passive activity, that they plan an activity that can be done while sitting around while listening to the game - like practing knot tying, making baskets, weaving lanyards, etc.

 

CalicoPenn(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

[t158sm]

Occasionally someone will have a brief mental lapse and schedule a fall camporee the week of the Alabama/Auburn football game. Our district has some very good boy run troops and some other less than perfect troops. No matter what campsite you walk by you can keep up with the game and never miss a play.

Does this mean that these are all poor Scout troops? No, I don't believe so. Other things are happening as well. The Scouts are playing a game. They're cooking supper or cleaning up afterwards.

I always take a small radio to keep up with the weather. It just so happened that last year we found out that after the midnight news/weather the radio version of the twilight zone comes on a local station. Everyone who was still up wanted to listen in, so we did. Did this hurt anything? No. (Before someone says something about being up so late. The Scouts set their own time for bed.) What would have been the difference if I had told a spooky story instead? Everything isn't set in stone, there are always going to be degrees of black and white.

Maybe a couple of thoughts attributed to BP to close out my ramblings.

 

"The boy is not governed by don't ,but is led by do."

 

"See things from the boy's point of view."

[orennoah]

Me thinks that Mom needs to get a life.

 

From your description, she's not a Troop leader. She hasn't "paid her dues," she hasn't been trained and she hasn't had the experience of putting theory into practice with actual boys who have actual lives. In fact, it looks like she only showed up for Saturday night and hadn't spent the entire weekend with the Troop.

 

She is entitled to her viewpoint, but she is NOT entitled to change the Troop to meet her own prejudices.

 

An occasional "treat" of "breaking a rule" can be a great motivator and morale booster. On a week-long camping trip and service project, where we demanded (& got) full Class A's for morning and evening flags, we once declared "grubby flags." Full Class As were forbidden. Boys were chastised to "untuck that shirt!" etc. We were all laughing and having a great time (except, of course, during the actual flag ceremony). Morale soared and we were back in full Class As the next flag ceremony.

 

I can see your occasional allowance of a radio for a special game. Having to use one's imagination to "see" the game that all their non-Scout friends were watching on Tivo-equipped big screens is, itself, an educational experience. Doing it with your Scouting buddies can be a very productive "male bonding" experience.

 

Also, if you "give in" to Mom on this issue, she will soon know no bounds. What's next? Mandatory oral examinations during hikes? After all, they were "wasting" all that time just walking around.

 

Hang in there.

 

- Oren

[AnneinMpls]

Tempest in a teapot indeed

I think this can be salvaged though (and it sounds like you'd prefer to find a way to keep this kid in Scouting!)

I think what happened is mom got only a quick snapshot of "what was happening on the campout". Maybe her son isn't communicating too much about what goes on out there in the woods

I think an invite to coffee - along with a couple of your strongest supporters among your troop's parents could be very helpful. Guide the conversation around to (or put it on the agenda up front and center) "the boy-led troop and developing leadership", then use the football game as one of your main examples of how it all works. It'll be a lil harder for mom to complain with 3 or 4 others nodding their heads and smiling at the ability of their SM to guide young men on the path to leadership (This is a technique called reframing - in which you take a different view of events - a change in perspective - kinda like, if you have a piece of art that doesn't really do it for you, and sometimes all it needed was a different frame!)

Peace and all good,

Anne in Mpls

[SemperParatus]

"She was very upset that we were wasting her sons time with listening to a football game when we could be using the time to better advantage."

 

I don't get this at all. Campfire is a time to unwind, relax and hang-out. If the boys want to listen to a football game on a radio, it is no big deal.

 

What exactly does she think the troop should be doing? Round-the-clock advancement?

 

She shows up for a couple of hours, forms an immediate opinion that her son's time is being wasted, and then proceeds to cause a big stink. She's got issues. The Committee Chair needs to support you and the boys here. If she chooses to pull her son over this inconsequential event then so be it.

[scoutldr]

Agree with the "get a life" response. I think it was a reasonable compromise to get the kids into the woods. The alternative would have been, what, no campout? And that benefits who? I have little patience with today's overprotective parents who think that every waking moment needs to be supervised and programmed. Why did she just "show up"? To check up on you? Tell her that when she takes her turn at being SM, she can run the program her way. If she elects to leave, tell her that her son will be missed and move on!

[evmori]

I am all for no electronics on campouts. That said, what you did was a good idea. You got more of the Troop out & I would bet there was a lot of bonding around the campfire listening to the game.

 

During the winter, we sometimes cabin camp at one of our Scout camps. Usually during one of these campouts, a leader will bring along a TV & a DVD movie for Saturday night. We never tell the Scouts. The times we have done it they loved it.

 

Parents like this can be a problem.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4;10

[ASM59]

I agree that you should not make a new policy or make changes because of one mother's misunderstanding; and I really do mean misunderstanding. I like what Anne in Mpls said about taking her out for coffee (or have her over for dinner) with a couple of other Adults who you can trust to stand behind you.

 

I think the biggest thing to discuss is just what the Scouts accomplished during the day. Make sure that she understands that the Ranger was appreciative and complimentary with regard to the amount of WORK that the Scouts had done that day. I would also make sure that she understands that this is NOT a part of normal outings and was only done to make the work day a success by getting more Scouts to participate. You could also point out that it was a well deserved break after all the work of the day.

 

Good Luck,

ASM59

[jr56]

Sounds like you have a fine boy run troop. A junior leader made a well thought out decision. This mother needs to understand the scouting program and what "boy led" really means.

Unfortunately you can't satisfy all the people all the time.

[purcelce]

I would say let her walk. But I would give her a list of other troops in your town. If the boys wanted this and the SM approved then "tuff nuggies". Listening to a game on a campout is not the end of the world. I also believe this might be best for you and the troop as this lady go away as she could cause waves later on.

[Eagledad]

Ah the memories. Anyone who is a scouter in Oklahoma understands that the University of Oklahoma/TEXAS game is a holiday weekend of which nothing is planned unless the activity is within five feet of a 25 inch or greater TV. I've been told is required by state law. The PLC of my troop as a boy made the error scheduling our campout on that weekend. It quickly became obvious that there wasn't going to be any adults unless something was done, and a generator and TV showed up on that beautiful Oklahoma fall day as well as the usual dozen or so adults.

 

Barry