I Don't Like Where Our Pack Camps

[Its Me]

Every year our pack does two campouts. One is at a council event the other is at a coastal park here in Florida. The council event is fine; because its safe the days activities are planned and there is always a lively campfire program.

 

It's our second campout that I don't like for the following reasons:

1) The park is in the middle of the city. Traffic noises and boat sounds can be heard all through the night.

 

2) Due to over use by untidy youth groups and other such organizations the place is infested with Raccoons. Don't leave your cooler out or a masked bandit will have your lunch.

 

3) The water line either can't or has never been secured by our pack. A tidal channel forms the beach at the campsite. Although there are signs stating "No Swimming" the Pack leadership has always interpreted this literally and allowed unchecked wading. Actually there has never been a real safe swim program at this campsite. I have been to this site with two different packs and neither enforced a safe swim program.

 

4) There is not much to do at the campsite. Its off set from the rest of the park, so in order to get to the playgrounds, designated swimming area or historical sites, families must get in their car and drive there. At the campsite there is only the unsecured beach.

 

5) The campsite is in such demand that unless you call at 7:59:59 AM, 90 days in advance you will miss out on the reservation. Thus we never seem to get the weekend we want.

 

 

 

The CM likes this site because he can sail his boat right off the beach. Several passive attempts to get him to move from this site have been met with strong resistance from him. Every loves the site, according to the CM. (and some do). But some of the other Webelos leaders who have been-there/done-that, have expressed, that a new site would be welcome.

 

As one of the Pack's Baloo's and the one who has signed off on previous tour permits and has planned all activities at last two pack campouts, should I just go along to get along? Or should I just say tthhpptt! and let the other pack Baloo deal with planning and signing off on the tour permit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

[scoutldr]

In the first place, the CM does not dictate where the pack will go. That's a Pack committee decision. Unless you have a "safe swim defense" and "safety afloat" program in place, there should not be any water activities. Is the CM taking scouts out on his boat?

[Its Me]

scoutldr wrote: "Is the CM taking scouts out on his boat"?

Only with the child's parent in company.

[ScoutNut]

As the BALOO trained leader filling out the tour permits, who have you listed on it as having current Safe Swim/Safety Afloat training? Whoever that is should be in charge of keeping the waterfront safe & making sure all of the rules are followed on the beach & the boat.

 

As for where you are camping, as the BALOO trained leader in charge of the campout that is pretty much your call. Get a list of approved campsites from your council & start checking them out. Find 2 or 3 that meet your Pack's needs & present them at the next committee meeting. Let them know that those are the only choices.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

BTW - Why don't you work together with the other BALOO trained leader to plan the campout?

 

The more heads & hands the better. It helps to spread the work around so that 1 person is not doing it all.

 

 

[Lisabob]

Scoutldr is right. Don't let your CM dictate this. Talk with the committee chair about including a discussion of the pack's camping program on the agenda. Then when your committee meets to discuss the pack's camping plans and the CM says "but everyone loves this place" you can offer factual evidence that this is incorrect (Hmmm let's see a show of hands for people who'd like to try a new place). Easily done.

 

Aside from that, even if "everyone" really does "love" this site, change can be nice. Does the CM have a boy in the pack? If so, remind him that his boy too might enjoy exposure to a variety of your local natural treasures rather than the same one every time. If this particular site could be made secure (and just hasn't, to date) then maybe suggest including it in a rotation of camp sites that the pack uses, rather than as the only camp site.

 

Good luck...

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat apply even when the parent accompanies the Cub.

 

From G2SS:

 

"For Cub Scouts: Canoeing, rowboating, and rafting for Cub Scouts (including Webelos Scouts) is to be limited to council/district events on flat water ponds or controlled lake areas free of powerboats and sailboats. Prior to recreational canoeing, Cub Scouts are to be instructed in basic handling skills and safety practices."

 

This is boldface in the guide, and thus is MANDATORY.

 

The Cubmaster is completely outside BSA policy. Any accident will come back to haunt him personally. Encourage him to cease and desist immediately. Consider contacting your SE.

[lynncc]

Or you could be sneaky. The weebelos get to camp on there own with out the rest of the pack. Plan a really cool trip for them and when they get back and talk about what fun it was at the "new" campground the other kids will be wanting to go...heheheheeee.lol

 

just a thought.

 

lynncc

Pack 403

Jacksonville, TX

[Its Me]

 

The CM tends to blow off rules he doesn't agree with.

 

I regret that last year I did not make more of a stand against allowing some of what occurred at this campout. I had scheduled a swim time at the designated swim area but not all families got in their cars and drove over. Some allowed their kids to play at the unsecured beach. Honest, there is a 3' x 2' sign right at the beach head that says "Dangerous Current No Swimming". Should a kid get hurt what are we going to say?

 

The committee chair is his wife.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I could make a case that you should report the Cubmaster and his wife to your SE on a youth protection violation.

 

Following is from G2SS:

 

"The Boy Scouts of America takes great pride in the quality of our adult leadership. Being a leader in the BSA is a privilege, not a right. The quality of the program and the safety of our youth members call for high-quality adult leaders. We work closely with our chartered organizations to help recruit the best possible leaders for their units.

 

"Proper preparation for high-adventure activities. Activities with elements of risk should never be undertaken without proper preparation, equipment, clothing, supervision, and safety measures."

 

(Again, boldface is mandatory)

 

Proper preparation and supervision means following SSD/SA. Your CM isn't.

 

You're a beaded Wood Badger. You know what he's doing is wrong. Give him feedback one on one. If he fails to listen, talk with your fellow patrol members, TG, and WB SM. I'll bet they'll tell you to consider reporting this couple to your SE.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[nldscout]

How you get a YP violation out of this is beyond my reasoning. He hasn't broken any YP rules.

[lynncc]

as far as breaking the youth protection rules. If you interpret youth protection as only protecting against child molesters then no he has not violated this. He has violated G2SS and put YOUTH IN DANGER. Thus by putting them in danger by not following posted no swimming dangerous current then that is definately not protecting your youth and I would not want the safety of my child in his hands. Just because he is not molesting my child does mean he is not harming him.

 

As a stupid child once myself 10grader I was on a trip to Hawaii with my grandparents. It was Christmas day and I just had to go swimming. I went to the beach alone saw the no swimming dangerous undertow signs but thought I would just wade not swim....When they say strong currents they mean that. Very scary. I did not intend on swimming but the current knocked the feet out from under me and i went for an exhausting swim back to shore. Only a few yards but could definately feel the pull. Same thing could happen to those kids. Some may be good swimmers but just how strong is a 6 to 10 year old against the current. Others may be marginal or poor swimmers and that would put them at a greater risk.

 

Talk with others in your area and see how to handle this. Your DE/SE needs to be aware and maybe they can have a talk with them. They are the perceived or real authority where as you are just one of the many volunteers. All tho you sound like a highly trained and want to follow the rules kinda person the CM still has that "senority" thing and nothing has happened so far, we do it all the time you are just blowing it out of porpotion kinda outlook (or so it appears on this end of the computer screen),

 

Just my 2 cents.

grateful to in a group that takes suggestions and criticism gladly. They are always striving to improve.

 

lynncc

Pack 403

Jacksonville, TX

[SemperParatus]

IM,

 

Lots going on here. I think you have some very legitimate concerns, but going up against the CM and CC over the site selection sounds like a very tough row to hoe. If I were in your shoes, I would express the concerns at the next committee meeting and offer up some better alternatives. If you are shot down, then I would suggest withdrawing your support of the trip...do not attend or plan any activities for the campout. In other words, tthhpptt.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

We've found that taking post-trip surveys is a great way of getting feedback and driving change. If a large percentage of people complain about the site, you have all you need to justify changing. And that's without getting into all the safe scouting issues that may be looming there anyway.