Spelunking/caving

[cheffy]

I'm getting some requests rom the boys to try this but have no idea where to start. An internet search didn't turn up much. We are looking for something in the Ohio, Michigan Indiana, Kentucky area. Wil probably need an experienced guide also.

[Trevorum]

Our guys LOVE caving! We try to do it every year.

 

There are lots of good places in your region, including Mammoth Cave Nat'l Park and commrcial sites. Hook up with your local speleological society (see http://bluegrassgrotto.org/ovr.html or www.caves.org) and maybe subscribe to a caving listserv for more info.

[SMT376Richmond KY]

cheffy

 

Look at G2SS Troops are not permitted to "wild cave" Troops are only permitted to go on guided cave tours. I have problems recruiting since another Troop in our town likes to disregard this section and takes new Scouts and recruits with them to a cave on private property in the next county. In KY we have mammouth cave which offers a good tour there are many caves in Cave City KY as well as Carter caves in North Eastern KY which has a good tour also. Indiana has Squire Boone caverns but not sure of the tour packages they offer.

[packsaddle]

There's one near Chattanooga, TN that is worth considering. Raccoon Mountain Cave has a wild cave trip (guided) that is a great experience and you can sleep over in the cave if you want. It's a little farther out than the range you mentioned but we've done it many times now over the years and the boys (and I) always have a blast. Be advised, for about 6 hours you will crawl, squish, squeeze, and slither through some really great holes, mud, slides, and climbs. And then collapse into sleep in total darkness and the mud. Quite a workout.

[ManyIrons]

Richmond, I think your problems are over. The G2SS says:

 

All caving, other than simple novice activities, should be limited to adults and young people 14 and older members of Venturing crews and older Scouts in troops, and teams. "Simple novice activities" means commercially operated cave excursions and easy caves.

 

As long as your Scouts are over 14 (and you follow the other guidelines) you can "wild cave".

 

Heres the link: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss09.html#b

 

Cave On

[Trevorum]

SMT376, can you please clarify? My reading of G2SS does not support your statement that troops can not spelunk.

 

The G2SS (http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss09.html#b) says, "All caving, other than simple novice activities, should be limited to adults and young people 14 and older..." . There are lots of safety considerations, but the bottom line is that troops can indeed do "wild cave" spelunking.

 

[FScouter]

There is a BSA publication specifically about caving and how to do it as a safe troop activity. The name and # escapes me for the moment.

[ManyIrons]

It might be the "Policy on Use of Wilderness Areas by Personnel of the BSA". The G2SS says that caving trips have been incorporated into this policy, but it looks like it has to be ordered from National. Council shops may have them.

[ASM59]

If you can make it, go to Carter Caves (as was already mentioned by SMT376). There is a wide variety of Caving that you can take part in at this park.

 

1)-Along some of their hiking trails are caves that you can go through yourself. There is no way to get lost in these caves. They are simple single path caves with only a few short dead-end side passages. They are great fun to go through as a group, but make sure to get your hiking permit from the office first.

2)-There are guided tours of X Cave and Cascade Cave. Each is lighted with finished walkways.

3)-There is a guided tour of Bat Cave as well. This cave has not been modified with walkways and hand rails and has no installed lighting. You go on the tour with your flashlights only. The standard tour is not too difficult and only has a few passages that require squating or crawling as the ceiling gets pretty low.

4)-There is also a guided crawling tour of the Bat Cave. I haven't been on this tour, but I've heard it's great fun.

 

http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/cc/index.htm

 

ASM59

[SMT376Richmond KY]

Here is what we follow:

 

AGE-APPROPRIATE GUIDELINES FOR SCOUTING ACTIVITIES

Age-and rank-appropriate guidelines have been developed based on the mental, physical, emotional, and social maturity of Boy Scouts of America youth members. These guidelines apply to Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, Varsity Scout teams, and Venturing crews.

 

http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=ds&terms=age+appropriate+guidelines

 

List the following:

 

Caving(Other than simple novice activities)under the column for Boy Scouts Caving is not selected as age appropriate. However, it is listed under OLDER BOY SCOUTS,VARSITY SCOUTS,AND VENTURERS. However, there is no mention what classifies an "older Boy Scout" which I have asked in another thread. I mean a lad joining at(10 now)would be FC within his first year of joining now 11

 

Our oldest just turned 13 and other Troops take lads under 14 "wild caving" and other high adventure activities. I've been told by two visiting webelos parents that they were invited to come along on theses too. From one of the Troops. We've gone on some "Simple novice activities" meaning commercially operated cave excursions and easy caves." (Mammouth, and Onyx cave at Ky Down Under)but these are walking tours not crawling on your belly like a reptile as I and the committee take it by the age approriate guidelines and G2SS we can't do since we have no older Scouts.

 

It's been difficult to keep our boys enthused when friends the same ages at school in other Troops are telling them "we go by ourselves without to a cave we know about in the next county."

 

[EagleInKY]

Richmond.. Hey neighbor! We've similar challenges because we're a young troop too. My approach has been to slowly step up the adventure challenge each year. For example, with some mature 12 & 13 year olds, you can do some decent tours that have a taste of "wild caving". Sure, it's not the real thing, but it satisfies the appetite for now.

 

Be honest with your guys, tell them you are building up to something bigger. Some will be patient, some will not. I had two scouts leave because we weren't doing enough "high adventure". They want us to go to Philmont now (even though they're only 12). This year, we're doing some more exciting things. They whined to one of our boys about us "doing fun stuff now that their gone". The boy responded that they should have been patient and the fun would come.

[SMT376Richmond KY]

Hey Eagle

 

Glad to know there is misery just down the road a bit. Yeah my young guys are chomping at the bit to do the "glamorus stuff". However, they've scoffed at backpacking for a weekend in the Gorge. They want to truck camp all the time but then don't want to fork over the cash or do the fundraisers to make a big trip happen. They asked to go out of state for a trip but had no ideas so one of our parents suggested a 4 day Smokey Mountain trip which they were all excited about but did little planning for. I helped them out but once they realized we would not be hauling the Troop equipment to a site they changed their minds.

 

We're going to Torrent Falls in the Gorge in two weeks (if they pay there fees at next weeks meeting). Last night you could hear the crickets when the Committee Treasurer asked for the fees as planned (Troop treasury is picking up 100% of SC next month so until Sept popcorn comes around boys are funding their outings). We have mentioned that they need to pick a goal and work towards it in a couple of years but like most boys their ages they want it now.