Patrol events

[Xagor]

I need to know what the BSA regulations are regarding patrol events that are supervised, my problem is that I am running our troops new scout patrol and everytime we plan something our sm says we can't do it. The current situation is, Kevin M, who is also running the new scout patrol, and I planned an event for May 6&7. Our sm, Mr. G. said we could not do it because there was a troop campout planned for the same day, but our patrol wasn't going on this campout anyways, so it didn't seem logical. So, we reshedualed the event for May 13&14, no event on those days, and he said we could have the campout. About 4 days after this he sent out an e-mail that said all events must be approved by the sm and the plc to prevent conflicts and to assist in planning to ensure good program. Kevin called him to ask him to clarify, and he said we could not have our event because he was not involved in the planning. I want to know if he can do this since we will have 2 registered adults going and Kevin and I are the most qualified people in the troop to have such an event. Please give me advice soon because the event is coming up very soon and if we need to cancel it we may walk from the troop. All but a few scouts star or above in our troop are willing to leave if Mr. G. does not allow us to run the troop, for he has a history of impeding our program in ways that are just not right. So for now my question is, is the sm allowed to cancel a patrol event which was approved by the plc, is supervised by adults, and within the ability level of the boys involved.

 

Thanks in advance, this is a great help

[Bob White]

The short answer is yes. The bigger question is why would he? Ot sounds like better communications are need on everyones part. I would hope the SM would simply want to see that a plan is ion place and not feel the need to help make the plan. However I do not know what your SM's experience or skill levels are so it is hard to say if his actions are unreasonable or not.

[Xagor]

The problem is that we told him about this campout on April 21 and he never asked to see the plan. I am the troop instructor and I have been running troop programs for 3 years, and I will finish my Eagle next week (assuming he signs my packet), so my resume shows plenty of planning experiance; one of the adults who will/would have been with us has been in the troop for almost 20 years and was sm twice, has the sm's key and the sm award of merit; there is also the fact that Mr. G has not asked to see any of our plans for anything, so this is not something we should have expected. I, and others, think that there is no reason to not have this event, and that Mr. G. is trying to gain control of something he shouldn't. He recently, without anyone being told ahead of time, decided to announce that all troop forms, scheduals, and articles were to be null and void until passed by a special committee; he has made other declarations which limit the power of scouts since then and most everyone is angry at him. We are not sure why he is doing what he does because he doesn't tell anyone, not even the troop committee.

[Xagor]

The thing that I want to know the most is if there is a way to pull this event off short of going camping as a group of friends.

[Bob White]

Not without the scoutmaster's permission.

[Xagor]

Ok, thank you.

[FScouter]

Things might go easier for you if you could share your planning more ahead of time with the Scoutmaster. There isn't much time between April 21 and May 6. He may just feel that the troop has been operating a bit loosely and wants to tighten things up a bit. Remember that he is the Scoutmaster and is ultimately responsible for all the activities within the troop. He is indeed fortunate to have someone like yourself to take charge of planning a patrol event. Try to spend a bit more time with him reviewing your plans in advance and I'd bet he will be much more receptive.

[Shadow99]

I has something to say also... i am from the same troop and have 3 years experience as xagor. The scoutmaster is acting in a way that a scoutmaster shouldn't. All his declarations have had no consent with the troop committe and he is even alienating his own assistant scoutmasters he has asked for two of them to step down. this isn't how he should use his power.

[Shadow99]

I has something to say also... i am from the same troop and have 3 years experience as xagor. The scoutmaster is acting in a way that a scoutmaster shouldn't. All his declarations have had no consent with the troop committe and he is even alienating his own assistant scoutmasters he has asked for two of them to step down. this isn't how he should use his power.

[Xagor]

I will admit that it is a fairly short time but this sm has cut off events that had been planned well in advance for reasons that, to be nice, weren't logical. He is doing many things that people don't agree with, but he will soon find that his troop is near collapse. Many people, nearly all the older scouts are willing to walk as soon as possible, but I would like to avoid that if I can. Our troop is one of the oldest and best in our district with a great track record in both scouts and OA, but this problem needs to be adressed somehow.

[AwHeck]

Xagor - I suggest that you first sit down and list all of your examples of how your SM has overstepped his bounds or acted illogically in your opinion. Be as specific as possible - dates, reasons given, etc.

 

Then, once you have your documentation in order, ask the Committee Chairman to meet with you to listen to your concerns. If for some reason the committee chair is unwilling to meet with you, the next steop would be to meet with your Charter Organization Representative (COR). All adults must be approved by your Chartered Organization and this is usually through the COR. If you don't know who your COR is, you should be able to obtain this information by calling your Council Office.

 

Good Luck!

[Xagor]

It is unfortunate that we don't really have a charter organization, we sponsor ourselves in that everyone who is in our charter organization is on the troop committee. We just had a troop meeting tonight and the troop committee chairman started to interview those adult leaders who have problems with Mr. G, but so far only one person has been interviewed. When we told the parents of the kids who were going on this campout that it was canceled, they all got quite angry, as I said this event was announced for one date, moved to another, then canceled again, so they were not very happy with this news. When they asked me why it was canceled, I told them, "Go see Mr. G, I cant tell you because I honestly don't know." I know he is now more angry at me because I suppose he expected me to give them an answer.

As for what he has done so far, there have not been too many big things, but he has been dictating to the scouts and PLC what can and can not be done. One major thing he did was issue a proclimation that " ... effective immediately, all scheduls, guides, notices, program-specific aids or other operational documents of troop ... should hereby be considered null and void." This is one of the things that he did recently that caused all kinds of chaos, he didn't tell anyone about it ahead of time, he just passed out a form at the end of the meeting and explained it. he also changed the way our troop handles spirit boards, we have these for the requirement of living the scout law and oath in your daily lives, before it was fine but now he has to sign them off, before it was the spl, their patrol leader, and an older scout who knows the person outside of scouts, but now he has control of that also. Again, these are just some examples but there have been many, many small examples of his... bs? And many people are angry.

If you would like to discuss this with me live my AIM sn is xagor the ninja and I am on fairly often at night.

[Shadow99]

also at this point he has created a new group that runs practicly every thing. these three adults force their will through their sons. one of which i did his job for him and his father was quite angery that we were working to straiten out all our merit badge books and this was supposed to be done by his son and wasn't and pulled me aside and said i should participate in the troop. sadly the only comment the came up was well i would if your son wasn't lazy and would take his job seriously. he never did and his father walked off and got the other two heads together and chatted for a good half hour. btw we are our own CO

[SeattlePioneer]

The conflicts described in this thread are obviously unfortunate.

 

It sounds as though the Scoutmaster feels threatoned by the events going on beyond his control. He may be concerned about liability or safety, or just be insecure with things happening with which he isn't familiar.

 

Just as I'm sure you are familiar with Scouts who are fearful of swimming, or get homseick at camp, even Scoutmasters might find themselves fearful when placed in new situations.

 

So I would suggest that you be helpful, friendly courteous and kind in dealing with the people and events you describe. It may be that the campout in question will remain cancelled, but the events that cancellation triggers might be used to come up with policies and procedures that will work well in the future.

 

In short, don't quit. Use the Assistant Scoutmasters and Troop Committee Chair to help work out a good solution for the future. They may need to work with the Scoutmaster to understand his anxieties and concerns and come up with procedures that everyone can live with.

 

Scoutmasters aren't perfect, and they make mistakes and errors of judgement. Aim to cut your Scoutmaster the same slack he may have cut you in the past!

 

 

And congratulations! As you become an adult, you succeed in stretching Scouting and your adult leaders as well. It sounds as though they are struggling to adapt to that increasing maturity and self confidence.

 

Perhaps that's a reason why Boy Scouts ends at age 18. Have you considered forming or joining a Venturing Crew? They ought to find such issues easier to deal with.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer