Married couple as adult leaders on a campout

[Lynda J]

Married couples can sleep together on camping trips.

Female leaders can share a tent.

Male leaders can share a tent.

Non married couples can not share a tent.

Non parent adults can not share a tent with a boy.

Parents can share a tent with a boy.

[acco40]

Duplicate post.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[acco40]

Again, married couples may share a tent in the eyes of the BSA ONLY if they are considered adults (over 18 for Boy Scouts, over 21 for Venture and the OA). So a husband and wife who belong to a Venture Crew and who are both 20 MAY NOT share a tent.

[Illini]

Exactly what did the parent quote? Please elaborate. Now, if there was an emergency with your children who would be responsible for the remaining children in the troop?(This message has been edited by Marge)

[Illini]

Can you honestly say that every other leader, committee member and parent was invited to attend this event and refused? It is difficult to believe that no other arrangements could be made. Where are the SM and ASM? I agree with many of the other posts that YP issues should certainly be an issue in this case.

[nutz4scouting]

Both are registered with the BSA.

I think the seperate tent issue is an excellent idea,though.

[Bolo]

My husband and I are both ASMs and we always sleep in separate tents...

he snores and I don't like earplugs.

[baldingeagle]

Lack of parental partisipation is ALWAYS frustrating.

I'd like to take a Sec to thank all of you out there that "do whatever it takes" to to make the program work.

 

My input on the sleeping arangements for Married couples (heterosexual, non athiest, ect.......) cub scout camping is "family" camping and families can share the same tent

 

In Boy Scout camping Males and females should be seperate

 

[jark]

The only sections of the Guide to Safe Scouting that deal with family camping are:

 

Section III

Family Camping

Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection guidelines apply.

 

Recreational family camping:

when Scouting families camp as a family unit outside of an organized program. It is a nonstructured camping experience, but is conducted within a Scouting framework on local council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may have family camping grounds available for rental at reasonable rates. Other resources may include equipment, information, and training.

 

I believe that these were the sections quoted and the point being made was that by having a family attend the summer camp that it was transforming the summer camp experience into a family camp. My reading of the above also indicates that the presence of more than one family member with at least one being a BSA member constitutes the 'family camp' part and so that any parents coming out with at least one scout would constitute a 'family camp'. Our troop's situation is a bit more involved in that the husband/wife team and the attending scouts constitute the entire family. Not sure that the distinction makes any difference, except to this person making the complaint.

 

 

Regarding the event of an emergency, one parent would have to deal with the emergency and the other stay with the unit as would happen with normal two-deep leadership. Since this is a summer camp situation, the problem may also be mitigated by being able to call on an additional non-unit leader to help until the emergency was resolved.

The complaint registered did not bring up any of the issues that have been discussed here about YP, but the main issue was turning summer camp into family camp.

That is what prompted my posting this to see what the real rules were and to understand if this kind of situation was expressly forbidden.

The issues raised here make it clear that it is hardly the ideal situation and should be avoided if at all possible.

Also, if this were not part of the organized council summer camp, but a separate troop excursion, the stakes would certainly be higher and a better arrangement should be made.

[Lynda J]

The fact that this couple is married isn't really an issue. The fact that they have a son in the unit, isn't an issue.

I see the issue here as not enough parent involvement in the unit. If you only have two parents willing to take the boys camping and that is a couple you raised the question of what happened in an emergency. Well if one of the adults has to go home and you only have two adults. Guess what. THE BOYS GET TO GO HOME!!!!

When we camp our SM and his wife, ASM, share a tent. But we also try to have at least one other adult there. I almost always go and we have two other parents that will shuffle. Last year for summer camp I was directing day camp. The troop went to camp with the SM, and his wife took the boys with one other adult. That adult stayed two days, then another went out and stayed two days, then another went out and stayed the remainder of the time.

I know that scouting says two deep leadership. But you would be safer to have 3-4 adults on any camping trip.

[CA_Scouter]

Agree with Lynda J. The issue is lack of parental involvement.

 

Last year, myself and one other leader ( a lady, btw ), stayed in camp the whole week, but we also had several other leaders rotate in during the week so we always had 3 leaders present ( and sometimes 4 ).

 

I planted those seeds at the beginning of the year, asking several parents if they could set aside a couple of days, instead of a whole week, for scout camp.

 

My experience has been that there are a few whole give it their all, and more that give it a little. If you add up a lot of 'littles', it makes an 'all', and you get the help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Illini]

I have a hard time believing that all the other parents, SM, and ASM were unavailable for the trip. I again ask were all the parents, committee members, SM, ASM, and parents asked if they would like the opportunity to camp with the boys before your decision was made. I feel bad that we are blasting this troop when this piece of information in not forth coming.

 

I have also seen instances where there is so much parental involvement qualified people are overlooked because they are unaware of all the slots that need to be filled. I know in our troop there are always parents milling around but they are not included because they do not attend the committee meetings.

[jark]

As it turns out we now have the following information available. Our CC contacted our council executive and has the following rules clarification via e-mail:

1. The husband and wife team DOES constitute the requirements for two-deep leadership.

2. A 'family' may camp at BSA summer camp as long as ALL of the members of the family are registered members of the BSA.

 

The complaining parent will be informed of the response from the scout executive for them to process as they see fit.

 

The troop committee will probably discuss this issue in more depth over the next few months and decide if a troop policy covering this situation is warranted; i.e., when would troop not want a parental team being the only adult leaders, etc.

 

One additional adult stepped up to come out for the week, so in this case the problem has been mitigated.

 

Other parents do come out for a day or evening at a time, but we generally try to cover the whole week with the same leaders if possible.

 

For this particular family going to camp this year it was the only time that this would happen. The old son is 17 and it will be his last year as a scout member, next year he would in the adult category. The youngest scout will be out for his first year. So the parents thought that it would be a reasonable way to spend some time with their kids and the rest of the troop since the committed leadership was not available when they volunteered.

 

Thanks for all your responses and opinions!

[FScouter]

"The troop committee will probably discuss this issue in more depth over the next few months and decide if a troop policy covering this situation is warranted..."

 

Why would you want a troop policy? In our troop we dispensed with custom troop policies. Our sole policy now is that we follow BSA policies. Easy.

[jark]

Good point. The only thing that seems to make sense out of all this is perhaps a restriction that parent two-deep is fine for events like summer camp and would not be allowed for events like a backpacking trip or high adventure trips due to issues like one of their children having an emergency or such.

But, you can't go wrong with just following the BSA rules and getting them clarified as needed when someone challenges a situation - which is what happened here.