Propane vs. white gas

[Eagledad]

Hi all

 

We migrated from white gas to propane, and on to the Coleman gas canisters. Several years back the Venture Patrols wanted a stove that fit their high adventure theme. They ended up testing two Coleman duel burner Exponent backpacking stoves and loved love them ($90.00 at Campmor). They are sturdy because they are duel burner and have a wider footprint than single burner stoves. Light enough for backpacking and virtually indestructible.

 

The troop ended up liking them so much that we replaced all our propane stoves with them. We have use them exclusively on all Troop outtings for over six years. They have been through rain, snow and new scouts, dropped, thrown, stepped on, kicked and dropped in the lake and they still work as new. We have used them from the Boundary Waters to 12000 feet of Colorado Mountains. They have worked at Zero degrees temps in Kansas, which is as far North as Oklahomans are willing to go in winter.

 

The only disadvantage is the cost of fuel is probably twice that of white gas. But once the scouts get use to them and the heat they put out, each Patrol usually uses less than one bottle each weekend (less than $3.00). And we only use two and half bottles per stove on 10 days of Philmont.

 

Just one more suggestion to add to the discussion.

 

Barry

 

[Its Me]

 

I also have a Coleman Exponent stove that uses PowerMax fuel from Coleman. I now have two single burners Coleman Exponets. We use them for pakc packing and car camping. They do a great job heating pots of noddles, coffe pots and skillet cooking. 20lbs of propane would last us from Webelos to Eagle. That just seems like so much weight.

 

Here is the one I have two of. Notice a hose connects the cannister to the stove. This provides more stability than a direct attach. (sorry if this is so obvious)

 

Coleman detached

http://store.colemancampingstore.com/coexxpst.html

 

Here is an ultralight back packing stove. It is designed to 1st be very light and 2nd heat a cup of water. It does both well.

http://store.colemancampingstore.com/coexouf1ulst.html

 

Also the powermax fuel comes in rycylcable aluminum cannisters. The drawback is that if you are flying no fuel can be transported in a carry-on or as checked luggae. Upon arrival you will find white gas as one of the most common fuels. 3lb propane cylinders next and then all the highbred propane/butane mixes.

 

 

 

 

[DugNevius]

we used propane back in the early 90s and then switched to white gas.

 

Correct me if i am wrong, but isnt white gas better economicly?

[John D]

IMHO propane is part of an "idiot proofing" trend seen in a lot of scout activities. Reminds me of a British scout group I met in Kenya. They had propane stoves, packets of freeze dried food, each day in a labelled zip lock bag, plastic spoons and forks, aluminum pot to prepare this "glop" in. That was it. It was "safe" and absolutely fool proof, no oportunity for error or accident. Is this the direction we should go? One evening I bought a nice beef roast, veggies from very attractive village ladies, prepared a fine stew on my MSR and 1 liter pressure cooker. It smelled great, tortured them a bit.

[KoreaScouter]

We use the 20 lb propane cylinders for car camps, with the lantern on top of the tree. The propane stoves can be fussy; one speck of dirt and we need to do meatball surgery on them. When we backpack, the lads bring their own backpacking stoves; they're a hodgepodge of white gas and canister. My last troop had a mix of white gas and propane. We usually took the propane stoves, and they worked fine even in Korea in January...and that's as cold as a penguin's posterior.

 

We have storage issues with white gas we don't have with the propane cylinders.

 

To me, it's a matter of preference. I know Scouters on Oahu, native Hawaiians, who have NEVER cooked at camp with anything other than Kiawe wood (mesquite to the mainlanders). When I was covering Dutch Oven cooking at a recent District RT, and talking about what each charcoal briquet was equivalent to in degrees, I was getting funny looks from my beloved Hawaiian brothers, who have never used the stuff and it was completely outside their lexicon. I was again reminded that this is a big world, and that many of us wearing the same uniform have completely different experiences.

 

KS

[Eagle69]

I think propane is cheaper to use than White Gas. We have been using 2 20lb tanks of propane for over a year and they aren't empty yet. On a normal campout we would probably go through a gallon or more of white gas. I think propane is about $13 from Wal-Mart when you swap an empty tank for a full one. One of my tanks even has a nonconforming valve on it so that tells you how long it's been filled. In my experience using the table top stoves, they are much less problem prone than a white gas stove. I don't miss having to pump a stove to pressurerize it one bit.

[jgetkin]

Unless I am mistaken, I believe it is a violation of federal law to refill and transport the small LP gas cylinders that we use for portable stoves. The issue here is if the cylider is overfilled, you risk a BLEVE (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion) of the cylinder. If you overfill the cylinder and place it near a heat source (hot automobile in the summer for example) the liquid expands to the point where the steel cylinder fails and explodes. I would strongly recommend researching the law before refilling the cylinders. The use of the 20 lb. backyard gas grille cylinders for static or drive up camping is ok but I much prefer liquid fuel for backpacking. Our council bans liquid fuels at our local facilites except for backpacking training. As our troop does a lot of backpacking and regularly sends contingents to Philmont, Double H, Northern Tier, etc. we always camp with liquid fuel stoves in order to teach the youth (and adults) how to safely use these stoves. Any fuel and equipment used according to the directions and in a safe manner is safe. Any fuel or equipment used inappropriately or in an unsafe manner is potentially dangerous. It makes no sense to me to force our scouts to use LP equipment locally and then require them to use liquid fuel equipment at one of the high adventure bases with little or no training and/or practice.

[packsaddle]

During our marathon camping trip this summer, many of the parks we visited had signs asking campers to take their spent Coleman cylinders with them. Reason: the solid waste problem was so large and those tiny tanks had to be disposed of properly, that the parks didn't couldn't afford to deal with those little propane cylinders. And in my work on the lakes, I could fill many boats with the darn things washed up along the shores. I use the stuff that doesn't boil at room temperature.

 

I think the overfill devices that are mandated for refilling larger cylinders stop the filling process when the cylinder is approximately 80% full. I don't know of any such system for the small cylinders. The BLEVE problem is a valid concern. If the cylinder is filled to the point that there is little or no headspace, the thermal expansion of the liquid itself (sitting in a hot vehicle, for example) will burst the cylinder.

 

All of the fuels discussed so far are, in fact, liquids. The advantage of propane is that it is contained and it vaporizes at low temperatures and pressures and this makes it convenient. But it requires materials and mechanisms of greater strength and smaller tolerances for safe use. And if it gets loose, it is more difficult to control.

 

I am curious, however. John D, did you say that white gas is $10 per gallon in Qatar? Are we thinking about the same stuff? What is the material that you are calling 'white gas'? I always heard that term applied to Amoco Super Premium...back in the days of lead emissions and $0.25 regular.

 

My preference: my old Svea 123 burning Naptha (Coleman fuel) and NO CARS, NO 20lb tanks. Just a remote trail and some water along the way.