Singing for forgotten items

[Just Asking]

In the Guide to Safe Scoutig under Hazing and Initiations, it states "All forms of hazing, initiations, ridicule, or inappropriate teasing are phohibited and should not be allowed." Our troop requires scouts to sing a silly song such as "I'm a Little Teapot" if they have forgotten an item at a scouting event in order to get the item back. This has been done at a troop meeting and even a Court of Honor. Is this against the Hazing and Initiations policy?

[Bob White]

Yes.

[OldGreyEagle]

yes

 

(for a complete discussion check the thread "Camp Hazing the good kind" in the Scouting History Section)

[Double Eagle]

Nothing is gained in it. What if the scout refuses, do you keep the item. How about public praise for the honesty in the scout finding the item and asking for the owner. Maybe the owner can be the "lost and found" scout on the next activity. Singing is for fun not punishment.

[Eamonn]

Yes.

Eamonn

[evmori]

No

[packsaddle]

When I was a scout, no one ever mislaid or forgot anything. Believe that? Seriously, my old troop never did anything like this when I was a scout (instead we had snipe hunts and were mean to each other in different ways). But when I arrived at this unit as a new leader there was a long tradition of doing just what you describe, at least that's what I was told. I was a little concerned about it but they boys seemed to accept it in good fun. Then, right here in these forums, (and not in the training, maybe they were deficient on this), I learned the actual policy. The practice in this unit ended immediately.

 

I do still sing to them...so far no one has called that 'hazing' yet. 'Abuse' maybe.

Oooooh, a horse is a horse, of course, of course...

[Bob White]

5 Yes

1 No

 

Have you ever considered that for one scoutleader out of five the perfect day of scouting would include having the opportunity to hold a boy upside-down while he cleaned a latrine singing "I'm a Little Tea Pot".

 

 

 

 

 

[FScouter]

YES, (6-1). Tea-pot punishment songs are hazing, and just plain dumb. Some kids may like the attention, others will decide their lost item is gone forever. Tea pot songs are fun for pre-school kids when done in a group where everyone participates.

[fotoscout]

absolutly yes

 

You shouldn't even have to ask the question!

[evmori]

How is singing for something lost hazing?

[Bob White]

I am at a loss for words. How do we explain having to perform at command for your own property to someone who sees no fault in turning other people's children upside down?

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

Hazing is to persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks. In this context, singing is hazing because the humiliation is intended to harass the scout into changing his behavior.

 

Hanging someone upside down is a tradition to uplift a scout by recognizing his advancement. No intention to harass, so there is no intention to humiliate the scout. It would only be hazing if the scout doesnt want to do it. Now its a dangerous practice and there by shouldnt be done. But calling it hazing only misuses and confuses the meaning of hazing. I have seen adults take this to the extreme and forbid singing Happy Birthday because they think that is hazing.

 

Barry

 

[Bob White]

First lets clear up the myth that upturning boys is a "tradition" that is load of hooey!

 

This is a relatively recent phenomena perpetrated as a tradition through questionable leadership practices, and the BSA quickly responded by prohibiting it YEARS ago. The problem is, there are nearly 1/4 of a million volunteers and not everybody gets the message or bothers to learn it.

 

It is not a tradition, its hazing. It's the BSA's program and they say its hazing and that's what makes it hazing. If the rule in your house is no smoking and a guest lights up, when you tell him the rule is no smoking but he says its a "tradition" with him, does he get to keep smoking?

 

In many instances "tradition" is nothing more than having done things wrong for so long you now believe them to be right.

 

Here's a great tradition for a unit to consider "we follow the scouting program". Imagine the impact we could have if that was the tradiiton everyone adopted.

 

 

[Eagledad]

Oh for Pete sakes. Tradition is what you make it. There are no time limitations on them. How would a Patrol make their own traditions. My pack did the hanging up side down tradtion 20 yesrs before it was stopped. It just happened that hanging upsidedown caught on and spread pretty fast and the BSA had to put a stop to the danger.

 

But just because the BSA says it is hazing? Well at one time the FAA said that only machines that simulate airplanes could be called simulators. That was a surprise for all those companies who built simulators that simulate everything from cars to hospital equipment.

 

A good hazing test is to look into your heart. If you are seeking to humiliate that person, its hazing.

 

Interesting story, a local Pack decided to start a new tradition so the scouts wouldn't be to upset taking away the hanging up side down ceremony. They made a Bobcat brand. The CM dipped the brand in white powder and branded each scout. Something to do with you are a new brand of scout or something like that. All was OK until an Animal Rights group found out and complained that it taught the scouts animal cruelty.

 

Barry