Double Eagle Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Arrrrgh! I'm still getting messages cut off> Cont. from my last post: wetting the bag. Most of us sleep through the night regardless whether we have a partner or not. My wife slept alone several times when she was the only woman scouter on campouts. This did not cause a problem. If the doubled up rule works for you, ok. How does sleeping under the stars stack up? Solo or group? Sometimes a time to reflect (woodb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Eagle Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 (woodbadge) or meditate (OA) by yourself is what is needed. Side note: Help, my replies keep getting cutoff. Devine intervention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Expertise has nothing to do with it, Bob! If you are interpreting the buddy system to mean "2 in a tent" then that applies to everyone on the camping trip regardless of age! Which means a Troop can't go camping with an odd number of Scouts or an odd number of adults or less than 2 females! WOW! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 If a Boy Scout had a medical condition that required that the parent or legal guardian be in the tent with them, that would be fine. But if the scout had good training in cubs he will not want a parent in his tent with him as a New Scout. He is looking forward to being independent of adults and camping with his friends. If a scout wants to meditate why does that require he be alone? He just needs to be with someone who will respect his quiet time. A Scout is courteous right? "Outdoor magazines are filled with survival situations that have lone travelers (car, boat, and hike)that found themselves alone against the elements" Ever notice how those stories fall into one of two categories, 1)People caught unprepared by poor planning or unexpected occurences they were not anticpating, or 2)Etremely skilled and experienced individuals who went alone knowing that it was a dangerous if not deadly activity and they were testing their ability to beat death. I hope you are not suggesting that either is appropriate for scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Eagle Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Philmont Rangers leave a crew on the 4th morning by themselves. They travel to a designated pickup point. This is a solo trip. The BSA accepts this. The risk is assessed and measures taken to reduce them. That's a bit far from one scout sleeping in a tent near other tents. Its hard to get some adults to be quiet, let alone teenagers. Privacy has its place and is not a curse or takes away from any program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 "Privacy has its place and is not a curse or takes away from any program." Where did anyone say it did? Not every person who works at Philmont has the skills to be a Ranger. And every solo Ranger's whereabouts are known by the HQ, and by night fall is in a subcamp, just not the one your crew went to. I do not understand the concern here. How does my use of the buddy system affect you in any way. It is by no stretch of the imagination a misuse of the program or a violation of policy. It is safe, it follows the philosphy of be prepared, iot helps teach scouts that they are responsible for each others welfare. My gosh you have a leader posting on this board who claims to lose 50% of the new scouts who join each year, and yet more of you have chimed in about my use of the buddy system than spoke up about his misuse of the entire program. I am in complete awe of such behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I have never allowed a Scout to sleep alone in a tent. While I never took the time to look up a reason in the G2SS. My thinking is very much in line with Bob White. Which I feel sure is a big surprise to everyone. If there happened to be an odd number we put 3 in a tent. While I'm a big boy now, and have camped a lot. Other than a bad back I don't know of any illnesses that I have. I'm not afraid of the dark or boogie men. I do have to admit to not liking sleeping in a tent by alone. There are times when I'm expected too. Still I like the idea that if something should go wrong, that my buddy is there with me and for me. A trip to the bathroom in the middle of the night, when it's dark and there are the sounds of the night can be very un-nerving for a little Lad. If he is in a tent alone he will be tempted to make the trip alone - What has happened to the buddy system then? Sure we can all sit by our key boards and say that the Scoutmaster at Wood Badge sleeps in his own tent. Or the guys who work at Philmont do this or that. Or that a co-ed Crew with only one female youth member will have no choice. But as a general everyday rule, I would much sooner see three Lads share a tent than have one fellow all on his lonesome. Aren't all the best jokes shared in the tent late at night when the little fellows think we old fellows are sawing logs? To miss out on that is to subject a Scout to cruel and unreasonable treatment!!! Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 This unit is skewed toward the young side but we do have older boys who pry themselves away from distractions for some of the outings. The JASM is one of these and if there is an odd number, he prefers to tent alone. I don't object. I was woken one night in the wee hours by a boy in distress, having a wet bag. His buddy was out like a light. But the boy was embarrassed and cold. I gave him my spare (I keep it just for times like this, you know, all that coffee and playing in the fire, a guy can't be too careful) and told him not to worry.In the morning I accidentally spilled coffee on his bag, so we had to rinse it in a stream and dry it thoroughly. I think I read something like this in one of the magazines. He and I are great friends. As for the night fright and bears, most my work is informing the young ones that those sounds are coming from the SM, not some monster. OK maybe that is a monster of sorts, I mean the guy looks like Godzilla until his morning coffee...and not too different after that, maybe George Sinclair. Gotta love 'im!(This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 My gosh you have a leader posting on this board who claims to lose 50% of the new scouts who join each year, and yet more of you have chimed in about my use of the buddy system than spoke up about his misuse of the entire program. Bob, I will assume (I hate to assume anything) you are talking about me and you should get you facts straight. I never claimed to lose 50% of the new Scouts who join each year. You claimed that! Without any basis, I might add! And what that has to do with the use of the buddy system is beyond me! Don't get in a tizzy because you might be incorrect in your interpretation! It's OK! We all make mistakes! That's one way we learn! I am in complete awe of such behavior. So am I! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 What would make you think I was refering to you Ed? Did it sound like you? I was in fact refering to a post from a different person. Soory you put your hand up for nothing. I know that you posted in June of 2002 that you had 18 scouts. You also said that you had 5 join last year, and I don't know how many in 2003. So now you must have at least what... 25 Scouts? I haven't checked your website in a while so I'll go take a look. Congrats on your scout retention. BW Oh darn Ed your Web-site is down. I know how many scouts you had two-weeks ago. Any change since then?(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Eagle Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 It seems a very serious aspect of this discussion has been overlooked. There is a health and safety argument in favor of not cramming extra people in a tent. There is also a legal and regulatory issue. For any long term camping there is a BSA minimum on the number of square feet of living space per Scout and Scouter. This would sometimes make it impossible to put extra Scouts in a tent. Also in some areas there are even more strict laws governing these sorts of things. Its the sort of thing that in the wrong place could get a camp shut down. So don't just assume 3 to a tent is the answer to the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 I would just like to emphasize that inexperienced Scouts should not tent alone. Through a series of very bad decisions, this was allowed to happen at a winter campout my son's troop went on, and the boy who was tenting alone was in distress from the cold, and it wasn't until morning that somebody heard him calling for help. Fortunately, he was OK (and, amazingly, has not quit the troop), but those who allowed it to happen (and who didn't verify that his gear was adequate) have had the opportunity to discuss this several times. It might be a different story for an older boy who wants to use a bivy or something, but not for younger boys, not ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Cramming? Who said anything about cramming? Who even said the size of a tent? Who talked about going over capacity? Who goes to summer camp with knowing how many are going and planning for the proper equipment? This is about the buddy system not about equipment choices. Please, let's not mix the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Bob, Based on your logic, it's all about equipment choices. If you have an odd number of Scouts going on a camping trip you better have a tent big enough for three Scouts & gear! Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Not trying to Hijack the thread but... The posting by Packsaddle jogged my memory. Some years back we had a lock in at the church hall for our Webelos Scouts. Games, Pizza, and movies. All went well, the last little fellows finally fell asleep at about 1:00 AM. About 3:00 AM, a little Lad woke me up to tell me he was going to be sick. I marched him to the bathroom. All of a sudden the Great Scoutmaster in the sky must have looked down and said "Hey take a look at yourself." The Boy was wearing his under-ware and a T-shirt and I was dressed the same way. Here I was with a little fellow in the bathroom. I left him for a moment and woke one of the other leaders. I have to admit that YP was not the first thing that I thought of. That was the well being of the boy. But when I thought about it, I had put myself in a very silly situation. I have learned from my mistakes and hope by mentioning it here that you will not allow yourself to be in that situation. Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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