Banned/Discouraged Items Camping

[FScouter]

The fact is that hunters (or shooters) do pull the trigger on moving bushes. Since there is no purpose served by dressing Boy Scouts like bushes, why promote it.

[FScouter]

I remember now where I heard about making choices. Its the mission of the Boys Scouts of America. Funny how we get wrapped up in the details of the program and forget the mission.

 

The mission of BSA is to prepare boys to make good choices throughout their lives. We teach them to consider possible outcomes of alternative choices and make a decision. We give them opportunities to practice what they have learned. Sometimes they make poor choices. We teach some more and provide more opportunities. They learn. We are preparing them to make ethical choices over their lifetimes.

 

If we feel the need to impose a list of forbidden camping items, that demonstrates that we have not taught the boys to make good choices and that we have failed our mission.

[Eamonn]

I'll second that Mr.FScouter.

As for "i guess you have to hunt for all your life to feel like i do about camo"

Can't help wondering how long it takes to feel that way about Scout uniform?

And if I should be concerned that people who show that they are unable to follow very simple rules, should be carrying loaded firearms in the woods?

Eamonn.

[madkins007]

Amen, FScouter! Preach it brother!

 

Using the raingear as an example- I feel it is within my role as a leader to teach the wisdom of preparation and what to bring, but (other than for new Scouts as a teaching technique or other special situations) NOT to do pack inspections.

 

On the other hand, we DO carry spare and emergency gear- a sleeping bag, a change of clothes, a roll of big trash bags, a couple towels, some easily stored food and high-energy snacks, spare water, etc.

 

My thinking is that if it starts to rain and a Scout is caught unprepared, it is leadership's job to ensure that the potential consequence is not out of proportion with the behavior. That is, we'll let the Scout get wet, but not hypothermic (or anywhere near that point) or ruin his sleeping bag.

(This message has been edited by madkins007)

[Kudu]

The BSA's mission statement is about making ethical and moral choices. If it had any real-world meaning that encouraged Scouts to think for themselves rather than being dictated to by lists of forbidden things, then the BSA would not impose on them a list of forbidden ethical and moral topics that churches are not allowed to discuss within the context of their own religious awards (religious doubt, for instance).

 

Mission statements are mostly public relations fluff dreamed up by people who spend too much time under fluorescent lights with business management gurus. These are the kind of committees who hire dress designers to create hot house uniforms for an outdoor youth organization :-/

 

If I were to pick any written BSA principle to guide me in this controversy, it would be William Hillcourt's first (and most important) Method of Scouting, The Scout Way: A Game, NOT a Science.

 

Forbid personal snacks, and you encourage Scouts to cook cobblers or smores.

[evmori]

While I agree with Kudu about mission statements being more PR than anything, helping boys make ethical choices is a good thing. One poster feels if we need a list of banned items, then we have failed to meet the mission statement. However, by having a list of "what to bring" and "what not to bring" items does help boys make ethical decisions. They know if it's on the "what not to bring" list & they do bring it there are consequences for their actions which helps fulfill the mission statement.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[madkins007]

"Forbid personal snacks, and you encourage Scouts to cook cobblers or smores." (Kudu)

 

I don't see the cause and effect relationship here. Nor do I think that there is any inherent value in cobblers or smores that make them more 'Scouting-like' than other kinds of snacks.

 

By all means, teach a variety of cooking techniques and menus, but making people behave in concrete roles (like 'camping = no pre-packaged snacks, even though everyone else in the park is going that route') does not strike me as particularly Scout-like or helpful in advancing our cause.

 

Besides, I REALLY dislike s'mores! Nasty, gooey flamin' calorie bombs! ;-)

[madkins007]

This is a bit off topic, and I am not aiming this at any specifc poster nor trying to start a flame, but the responses here have made me wonder...

 

A lot of the items discussed for banning/discouragement seem to be placed on the list because they violate the posters idea of what a perfect campout should be. Some things seem to interfere with some people's ability to commune with nature or violate some sense of the 'Scouting Way', and the message seems to be that 'since it interferes with my sense of aesthetics, it ought to interefere with yours- or I'll at least teach you to believe that way'.

 

Perhaps we ought to focus more on getting the guys out there in the first place, and let them their own sense of what the perfect campout is, even if it does not mesh with ours.

 

Perhaps we should ask ourselves 'if this was my family campout, with the spouse or child who really did not want to come, what would I ban THEM from bringing?'. Heck, I'd be so grateful one of my kids would come I'd let him bring almost anything the park rules did not prohibit!

 

So, why make it different in Scouts??

 

Sure, some things are still not appropriate, but it should be a pretty short list with pretty concrete reasons for everything. We should be able to say "don't bring THIS because..." or "we discourage THAT because..." and have the listener nod quietly at our great wisdom.

[evmori]

Personal snacks usually end up in the Scout's tent where a cobbler or s'mores don't. Plus, making a cobbler & s'mores is a learning experience. Personal snacks is popping a can of Pringles.

 

Why would a kid need a Gameboy on a campout - family or Scout?

 

Why would a kid need a Walkman on a campout - family or Scout?

 

If the answer is because they might get bored then maybe better planning is needed. Take a walk. See what you can find in the woods. Learn how to gather wood for a fire. Enjoy your surroundings!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

"Why would a kid need a Walkman on a campout - family or Scout?"

 

Scout: "Gee, Mr. Mori, I usually wake up about an hour before everybody else, and I like to listen to some music while I'm getting breakfast ready and policing the camp area."

 

The "need" for something like this is no different from the "need" for a deck of cards or a paperback novel or a checkers set. I also instinctively make a distinction between electronics and those other things, but I think it's just because I'm becoming an old geezer. I think madkins makes a good point.

[evmori]

"Well shucks Tommy Tenderfoot, why don't you just listen to nature? You can listen to your Walkman when you get home."

[OldGreyEagle]

To paraphase Ross Perot, that giant sucking sound you hear is the point flying over a posters head

[Kudu]

Maybe the solution is to encourage Tommy Tenderfoot to listen to a CD of natural forest sounds on his Walkman.

[IBadget]

"Why would a kid need a Walkman on a campout - family or Scout?"

 

A kid would need a walkman on a campout so that he or she can check out the different radio stations where the campout is. Whenever I go on a trip, I make sure I bring my walkman because I am curious about the different radio stations at my destination whether it be Las Vegas or the Philippines.

 

Another reason why a kid would need a walkman on a campout is so that he or she can listen to his or her favorite music on the campout. IMO a campout is much more enjoyable with your favorite music.

 

Whoever said that you can listen to your walkman when you get home is wrong because a walkman is portable and banning it defeats the purpose of its portability. What's the purpose of having a portable device if you are forbidden to take it with you?

[madkins007]

"Why would a kid need a Gameboy on a campout - family or Scout?

 

Why would a kid need a Walkman on a campout - family or Scout?

 

If the answer is because they might get bored then maybe better planning is needed. Take a walk. See what you can find in the woods. Learn how to gather wood for a fire. Enjoy your surroundings!"

 

LOL!

 

Ed, I could'nt agree more... for myself, but try to tell that to my 15 year old ex-Scout and he'll stare at you blankly. Taking walks is against his version of the Constitution (cruel and unusual punishment, you know), and the only thing he could find in the woods that would cheer him up would be a shortcut to an Internet cafe.

 

I'm happy just getting them into the wild and letting them develop their own sense of what camping and communing with nature is all about.