Banned/Discouraged Items Camping

[evmori]

Cause it usually rains when we go camping! Is that a good reaosn?

[schleining]

Lynda...

Don't pin this rose on the military...

Most of the folks I know that serve or have served, would not wear anything CAMO unless they had too (ie. on duty)

I have been in the Army for 20 years and do not know one person that wears any uniform item off duty.. Not even hunting. They opt for the better hunting gear sold at Cabelas and the like.

I own EXACTLY 8 sets of BDUs and 4 Sets of DCUs. They are for duty wear only.

None of my kids wear CAMO clothing.. heck they don't even play Army... its old hat.

 

I think people associate CAMO with the outdoors, I think too many Rambo wanna be's think it is cool to wear them because they watch too much TV.

BDUs are not the best or most funtional uniform or clothing item to wear in the woods. In fact the Army has gone away from BDUs and are currently transitioning to a new uniform. No woodland Pattern and more funtion in its design. I'll retire before it is fully fielded, but it will soon be available and I am sure we will see wanna be Scouts and Scouters sporting the new uniform with their Scout Shirts (untucked).

Then we will be forced to discuss it ad nausium.

 

Jerry

[Bob White]

There is a perfectly fine list of what to bring on a campout in the Boy Scout Handbook. The ability to make good decisions comes from good leadership and good training.

 

You can make the choice to forget the bad lists and just help them to follow the handbook, and they will do just fine.

[Hunt]

Let me throw out a hypothetical example. I will admit I don't know the answer.

 

Joe Scout: Mr. SM, is it OK if I bring my MP3 player along on the campout?

SM: Well, Joe, there's no rule against it, exactly, but I don't think you'll need it.

Joe: I know I won't need it like I need my mess kit, but I like to listen to a little music when I'm in bed and falling asleep.

SM: I'm also concerned that electronic devices might get lost or broken.

Joe: I'm very careful with my stuff. Also, this isn't a very expensive MP3 player--I bought it used.

SM: Wouldn't you rather listen to the natural sounds of the forest as you fall asleep.

Joe: Sometimes I do, but other times I prefer music. If I have my player with me I can make the choice depending on my mood.

SM: Won't it distract your tentmate?

Joe: No, I play it very low. If somebody speaks to me, I can hear them as well.

 

I'm not sure what this proves--maybe it proves you simply need a rule banning electronics to keep the outdoor experience pure, or maybe it means you should let boys make decisions for themselves, even if you don't agree with them. But it seems to me that something like this is very different from fireworks, or something else dangerous or in inappropriate.

[FScouter]

Hunt - Sounds like Joe has considered the angles and is able to make an informed choice.

[madkins007]

Banning electronics? I give them (and the parents) the old 'don't bring it if it will bother you to have it lost or broken' speech, and remind them that ANYTHING that bothers the others or is being used at the wrong time or in the wrong way will be removed and returned on the way home.

 

(The old 'we camp to get away from it all' bit is only partly true- YOU ande I may camp to get away from it all, but we don't all share the same values. 'Camping without electronics' is not a part of the program or methods of Scouting. Heck, I'd rather have a patrol that is 'plugged in' during down time than a lone Scout that shares my belief in that topic.)

 

Snacks? If they are using a troop tent- it is 'no food or drink in tents, even in your bag', otherwise it is 'A Scout is Courteous' and ought to share. There is also that rule about stuff that bothers others or is being used in the wrong way or time.

 

Banned? Nothing that will get us kicked out of the park or camp (fireworks, booze, drugs, cigs, weapons, loose wimmin, etc.) or that violates the 12 Points (porn, 'bad' messages on shirts or hats, etc.)

 

Discouraged? We talk about not bringing stupid things along- things you don't need (heavy flashlights, heavy/messy/unhealthy pop, firestarting tools other than a small survival kit, etc.)

 

We also discourage by generally requiring at least a little hike in, even when mostly car camping- park in the shade a bit aways from the camp, for example ("Get your stuff in one trip so we can lock up the car/trailer").

 

 

Camo? We got a lot of it a few years back when it was the fashion, and there is a troop the kids see that seems ot have made it a uniform choice, which causes them to ask me why we can't do that. Other than that, I forbid it as uniform wear, allow it for other uses.

 

 

 

Now- on SOME campouts, of course, our lists are quite different. A survival outing might only allow them to bring in a sleeping roll and 2 lbs of supplies while a campout that is mostly geared for 'cheap hotel space' while we do something else in the area might have even fewer rules than normal.

 

[evmori]

Actually, Bob White is right on the money. The list on pgs 224-225 of the Boy Scout Handbook are the best to use. And electronics are not mentioned.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

I have over the years done a lot of work for the Wild Turkey Federation, even though I don't hunt.

About 20 years ago I attended my first WTF Banquet.

After the banquet I was writing to my brother in England. I said how strange it was that the guest speaker was the world champion Wild Turkey caller, and how a room of 600 guys sat and listened to a man make turkey noises. Somehow to a guy from the city I found this really funny.

What wasn't funny was when I asked what had became of the previous world champion, it seems he was in the woods wearing his camo, calling in turkeys and someone shot him.

There is a lesson in there some where?

I do think that we need a rule about not taking any wild or exotic animals to camp. Elephants are a pain to clean up after. Lions and Tigers eat a lot, heck even the kick from an ostrich can land you in the intensive care ward for a week. Worse still is when one of these birds gets tanked up on sweet tea, the mix of sugar and caffeine is just horrible. Next thing you know theres goes the cell phones, game boys and the Scoutmasters lap-top.

Eamonn.

[hacimsaalk12]

eaamon- what exactly is the lesson to be learned from the turkey hunting incident. are you implying that we shouldn't wear camo because of hunters?

[dsteele]

Sometimes it's best not to ask Eamonn what he means. This may be one of those times.

 

But it was a good story.

 

Unc.

[Kudu]

We don't have any by-laws, but we do have a few rules which (except for food in tents) can be bent.

 

We prohibit blue jeans and all other 100% cotton clothes. So, we require olive-drab BDUs if it is one of those years in which olive-drab nylon "zip-off" cargo pants are not being sold for $20 by chain stores like Target and Wal-Mart.

 

Beyond the hypothermia dangers of cotton here in the north, wet cotton also increases the "whine factor," which is the tendency for wet Scouts to try to make everyone else as miserable as they are, until someone finally drives them home.

 

As for camo, we do allow camo hunting clothes. Parents who hunt tend to spend a lot of money on this, and it all seems to be well made (presumably, guys with guns make for bad disgruntled customers). The usual partial cotton content has always been a mystery to me, because it seems to keep the Scouts warm even in the rain.

 

We have never had any Uniform Police comment on our Scouts' camo hunting clothes, but that may be because these Scouts blend into the natural environment so well that the Uniform Police can't see them.

 

We "prohibit" electronic devices because we want Scouts to be in tune with the natural environment. I would say that adults promoting the sounds of nature is part of the Outdoor Method, which is the basis of Baden-Powell's "Religion of the Woods," which in turn makes it more important than the counter-balancing "Scout-Led" dictum, but YMMV.

 

In practical terms, in our Troop this means that if adults don't hear or see the CD players, then no harm, no foul. We also have a rule that a Patrol's campsite must be far enough away to be out of the sight of the other campsites. When it is practical for a Patrol to actually comply with this rule, the fact that adults are less likely to see or hear the CD players is an extra incentive supporting the Patrol Method.

 

Our exception to the electronics ban has been personal two-way radios, which can be both annoying and handy on hikes. In the annoying column are the hailing chimes, and the constant amplified chatter. Keeping the Scouts and adults on different channels, and requiring earphones helps, but it really distracts from nature and traditional hiking methods. One of our Scouts recently lost one of his sister's expensive units when he dropped it in a muddy, fast-moving river, and he reported that the other one "disappeared" as well, so we may revisit the issue of two-way radios.

 

We also prohibit caffeine on Friday nights (Scouts can drink coffee in the morning if their parents say it is OK. Caffeine withdrawal headaches indicate that some Scouts are really addicted). I also like lights out at 11 & no talking after midnight on Friday nights, to avoid cranky Scouts on Saturday, but if a Patrol camps far enough away, then they can do as they please. We haven't had problems with Scouts getting out of their tents and roaming around in a few years.

 

We recently started prohibiting personal snacks. They tend to end up in the tents, spoil meals, and sometimes get vomited out in the middle of the night.

 

We prohibit food in tents, but with varying degrees of success. A bear got into one of the Scout's tents last year during summer camp swim check, which was only 20 minutes after we arrived at camp. When we confronted him with the remains of his bagged lunch, he replied indignantly, "I didn't have any FOOD in my tent, it was just GARBAGE, a banana peel and the crusts of my peanut butter sandwich!"

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Gee Kudu, for a troop that purports to follow B-Ps original program, you sure do a lot of thinking for the boys and telling them what's what

[Kudu]

Well, in my defense I believe that I am perfectly honest about my hypocrisy. I always explain to my Scouts that I am old, cranky, a light sleeper, and above all else: very easily annoyed. I tell them that I am willing to drive them out to the woods every month, as long as they don't annoy the adults too very much in the process.

 

They also know that the further from my tent that their Patrol sets up, the less thinking I do for them. All things considered, I think that is a fair deal.

 

Among the things that REALLY annoy me (in their order of irritation) is 1) Whining Scouts in wet cotton, 2) OPM (Other People's Music), 3) Getting woken up after I fall asleep (especially by people yelling at bears), 4) Helping to clean candy-flavored puke off sleeping bags in the middle of the night.

 

By the way, this is a BSA Troop, not a BPSA-USA Troop, so if I purport to follow anything, it is Hillcourt's program circa 1960, not B-P's original program (which includes assigning Patrol Leaders, and a different advancement scheme that includes retesting).

 

The BSA "Eight Methods" (such as they are) saw better days under Hillcourt, but they still suggest that Scouts do not discover the Scouting program through some inevitable Scout-led discovery process.

 

Before Hillcourt's Ten Methods of Scouting, or even before the Brownsea Island campout, Ernest Seton wrote the "Nine Important Principles of Woodcraft," In his introduction to them he said:

 

"Not long ago a benevolent rich man, impressed with this idea, chartered a steamer and took some hundreds of slum boys up to the Catskills for a day in the woods. They were duly landed and told to "go in now and have a glorious time." It was like gathering up a net full of catfish and throwing them into the woods, saying, "Go and have a glorious time."

 

"The boys sulked around and sullenly disappeared. An hour later, on being looked up, they were found in groups under the bushes, smoking cigarettes, shooting 'craps,' and playing cards -- the only things they knew.

 

"Thus the well-meaning rich man learned that it is not enough to take men out of doors. We must also teach them to enjoy it.

 

http://www.inquiry.net/traditional/seton/woodcraft/9_principles.htm

 

 

[Eamonn]

hacimsaalk12

The sad thing is that the dead guy was from your neck of the woods, and was shot not far from camp sites that you use.

I don't hunt, but it seems to me that the Pennsylvania Game Commission, changes the dates of what is in and what isn't in every year.

I have been up at Camp Conestoga when guys have been hunting, in fact it has happened twice, once when Turkey was in and once when Squirrel was in.

I as a rule know when Deer and Turkey are in, but there is a very long list of times when other game is in.

So apart from breaking BSA Article X,Section 4 clause 4 (a) Which it seems so many people seem happy to ignore. If you feel safe running around in state game lands wearing camo, you are a lot braver than I.

I would draw your attention to:

COYOTE, OPOSSUM, SKUNKS & WEASELS: No closed season, with certain exceptions during deer and spring turkey seasons. No limits.

With a season like that Bambi would be glad to move out of the woods.

Eamonn.

 

 

[hacimsaalk12]

eamon- as a hunter i have to disagree. the PGC keeps the dates relatively the same. as far as camp goes, you are only allowed hunting turkey and deer there, and you have to matain a minimum 200 yds away from all buildings/activites grounds. we, as a state have one of the lowest hunter injury numbers around. on the game lands, most injuries are self-inflicted, and don't include anyone shooting another. i wear camo on many accasions. one being hunting, the other being scouting. any hunter that would pull a trigger on moving "bushes", shouldn't be hunting.

the coyotes, skunks, opossums, ect. dont have much to do with the equation. not many predator hunters hunt them after march. most all of them wear camo too, like we do, and make extra sure that it is actually a coyote, ect, rather than the neighbors dog.

 

i guess you have to hunt for all your life to feel like i do about camo.