Need Clarification on Webelos Overnight Camping

[Bob White]

I am not sure how to answer in a way that will satisfy you. The BSA is telling you the rule. How your unit comminicates and supports that rule is your units decision to make. How much do you like your home?

 

I have already answered this but I wil repeat.

Since the troop I serve NEVER allows ANY adult to sleep in a tent with ANY youth, we have no need to require any proof.

 

I have never shared a tent with my son at a scout function in the 9 years of his scouting and nearly 180 nights of camping he has done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Hunt]

Does the troop accept permission slips signed by a parent? What steps does the troop take to make sure the person signing the permission slip/application to join/etc. is really legally authorized to do so? Do you advocate that all troops forbid scouts from tenting with their own parents? Who made that rule? How exactly does the troop go about forbidding a parent from tenting with his own child if he wants to do so? The bottom line is that most of us have to rely on what people tell us at some point. If they don't tell us the truth, or tell us something misleading (as the mom in Twocubdad's case did), there's not much we can do unless we want to impose a lot more document-checking.

[Twocubdad]

Okay, as it relates to your -- er, your son's unit, fair enough.

 

But since I'm a Cubmaster and more likely than not parents tent with their children, what should we require of parents to make sure the rules are followed?

 

Just so you are aware, here are the steps we normally take and/or are taking for our upcoming campout:

1) I discussed the rules at the last pack meeting.

2)Our permission slip asks for the signature of the parent or legal guardian

3)In the case where a parent is assigning supervision of their son to another adult for the weekend the form we require for that reiterates the accommodations policy.

4) The info flyer for the weekend states that "All BSA health, safety and youth protection policies will be observed during the campout." It goes on to specify the accommodations policy. And,

5) The leaders of the trip are all trained to position and/or BALOO trained and prepared to address specific situations as necessary.

 

All these precautions were in place a year ago when the situation came up with the Webelos Scout. What should we be doing differently?

[Bob White]

"Sunday morning, as we are loading up, I took the time to tell the dad what a great kid his son is and how much we enjoyed having him in the pack. The dad thanks me but almost in passing says that the boy isn't really his son. The "dad" lived with the mother from the time the boy was three months old until a year or two ago. He said the boy never met his real dad and considers him his father."

 

Aside from learning how to turn back time I don't know that you can have done any more, if you did all the things you said you did. BUT you have to do ALL those things. And if you know or discover ahead of time that the adult doesn't meet the criteria of the BSA, you have a decision to make. You have to decide if you like this person enough to risk the scout's safety and your personal finances and allow them in the tent. Or you say "we told everyone the rules and you do not qualify under the policies of the BSA to stay in a tent with that boy on this event".

 

I know what choice I make.

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

So Uncle Billy takes little Johnny on a Pack camping trip because his brother who is little Johnny's dad can't make the trip. But Uncle Billy & little Johnny can't sleep in the same tent because Uncle Billy isn't little Johnny's dad even though Uncle Billie is the adult responsible for little Johnny for the weekend?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Excellent Ed you explained that perfectly. You are now one small step closer to understanding the youth protection policies of the BSA.

[evmori]

And if Uncle Billy has a signed letter from little Johnny's dad stating Uncle Billy is little Johnny's guardian for the camping trip they can share a tent?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[cubbobwhite]

When it comes to Webelos Den camping, the rules are different than those for Pack campouts. Your BALOO trained person is quoting rules for Pack campouts, not Webelos Den campouts.

 

The G2S2 says that each Webelos Scout needs to have an adult taking responsibility for him during the campout. http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss03.html#aa Under this rule - two adults could accompany the den and still be in compliance. (I don't recommend that)

 

As the the tent sharing thing - http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss01.html#c Check out #7. Let this be the time for the boys to experience camping in tents with the dads in the tents nearby.

 

 

[Bob White]

"The G2S2 says that each Webelos Scout needs to have an adult taking responsibility for him during the campout. http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss03.html#aa Under this rule - two adults could accompany the den and still be in compliance. (I don't recommend that)"

 

That is not correct. The Leader may not supervise anyone other than his own children, the other adult can only supervise one scout besides their own. A Webelos Den of three could camp with two adults.

 

Someone please explain to Ed the difference between a supervising adult and a legal guardian.

 

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

Don't see the words "legal guardian". However, I do see the words "parent approved adult" which means if little Johnny wants to tent with Uncle Billy & Uncle Billy has a note from little Johnny's parents stating it's OK then they can tent together!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Twocubdad]

What the G2SS says is:

"A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of an adult.... Den Leaders, pack leaders and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips."

This is one of those areas where the policy is poorly written and self-contradictory. To my reading, the first two sentences say two different things. But taken as a whole, I intrepret the rule to mean that they really, really, really want a parentto camp with the boy, but there is an out for those situations where that just isn't possible.

 

[cubbobwhite]

That is not correct. The Leader may not supervise anyone other than his own children, the other adult can only supervise one scout besides their own. A Webelos Den of three could camp with two adults.

Show me where that is written please. I have not been able to find that reference in the current G2S2. That was what was written in the previous edition though.

CBW

[evmori]

Actually the G2SS states:

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent approved adult. Joint Webelos dentroop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

 

I'm still looking for the words "legal guardian"

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Twocubdad]

In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent. If a parent cannot attend, the boy's family must arrange for another youth's parent (but not the Webelos leader) or other adult to be his parent substitute on the campout. It is essentials the each Webelos Scout be supervised by an adult. Parent substitutes may supervise on one Webelos Scout in addition to their own son

Webelos Leader Guide, pg. 21

[FScouter]

I'm afraid we're going to have to concede this one to Ed. He's right. It doesn't say "LEGAL GUARDIAN". Only when it says "LEGAL GUARDIAN" do the rules apply. Therefore we can all do whatever we want with a clear conscience.