Philmont Weight Requirements

[Fat Old Guy]

The discussion about Philmont health requirements made me curious so I went off looking for some more information.

 

I find it interesting that they evaluate "overweight" Scouts on a case by case basis but adults who exceed the weight are automatically excluded. This makes little sense to me.

 

Although I do fit the weight requirements for my height, I am on the heavy side but (with just a little bit of bragging) I can outlast all but the most incredibly fit youth.

 

We also have a dad in the troop who is roughly sperical in shape but is a hiking fool. He's always looking for 50 mile treks to go on. He carries his own gear and is usually in front because no one else can keep up with him.

 

On the other side of the issue, I knew a sailor who exceeded the Navy's weight requirements for his height but he had a very low body fat. He was a power lifter and had muscles on his muscles, making him very heavy. Every year, he needed to go through a big hassle to get a waiver for his weight. Would Philmot just reject him out of hand?

 

Just seems like age discrimination is going on here.

 

 

[Mike F]

FOG,

Philmont has had more adults than scouts suffer (and sometimes die) of heart attacks on the trail. Before they implemented the rigid standard, it averaged a little under one death per summer. It's now rare, but still happens on occasion. When our former SM was a scout about 30 years ago, it happened on his trek. That will sure foul up a trip for a bunch of guys.

 

It isn't age discrimination -- it's an honest assessment of the risks.

 

Although I haven't had reason to inquire about this one, from my other discussions I think your power lifter friend MIGHT be able to get a waiver if he provided Philmont with additional medical information (like results of treadmill cardio stress test), a doctor's written approval for the waiver, and an exercise log book to show he had been serious about preparation. But this must be worked with Philmont before arrival so their docs could consult his. And I'd have a backup advisor in case his waiver wasn't accepted. As stated, they'll never waive the max weight of 295 lbs due to rescue requirements.

 

[scoutldr]

I think we've had this discussion before. Based on the logic that people who are overweight may have a higher risk of heart attack, they should also automatically disqualify all smokers.

[Fat Old Guy]

"Based on the logic that people who are overweight may have a higher risk of heart attack, they should also automatically disqualify all smokers."

 

Heck, disqualify all men over 40.

[John-in-KC]

Key point 1: Base camp is 6,600 feet above MSL. Air is thinner than many of us live with, available O2 is less.

 

Key point 2: Some elevations in the field:

Mount Baldy is 12,441

Mount Phillips is 11711

The Tooth of Time is 9003

French Henry Camp is 9,680

 

Air is even thinner, and available O2 is even less at these altitudes.

 

There is one other point.

 

In addition to the height/weight standards, there is also an upper limit weight standard of 295 lbs, based on the capability of the rescue gear now available.

 

John

who went to PTC and sent his son on the Mountain Trek last year

[Fat Old Guy]

So John, you've just proved the point that smokers should be banned as well.

 

BTW, if memory serves, at cabin altitudes above 8,000 feet pilots are required to be on O2.

[John-in-KC]

F O G...

 

Don't hold me on this; I spent my week at 6,600 feet (PTC) ...

 

But I think the fire conditions were such there was no smoking in the backcountry last year. Certainly one of the things the guides did at shakedown was confiscate all matches and lighters from the Mountain Trek crews.

 

If someone else knows otherwise I will gladly post an "I goofed" followup...

 

John

[Fat Old Guy]

"Don't hold me on this; I spent my week at 6,600 feet (PTC) ..."

 

I never doubted it. I just made my comment to illustrate that above 8000 ft MSL, your body starts to suffer.

 

I am astounded by the idiots brave men mentally deprived men who assault Everest without oxygen.

[eagle54]

The Philmont Weight Requirements are also backed up by the information that the Life Insurance Companies which show that as group those who weight more than the ideal weight are more likely to die prematurely from heart attacks. Information reminds me that I am overweight and need to lose weight.

 

I am not as physically strong (scout oath) and not as able to be "A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thriftty, brave, clean and reverent" - Scout Law.

 

There can be individual exception but I am not in shape to (Scout Motto) "Be Prepared" for the treks at either Double H or Philmont - sam weigth requirements.

[scoutingagain]

I don't know if it's discrimination but it is certainly age/physique profiling.

 

But as a private camp Philmont, like the BSA, is free to set it's own criteria for participation. As noted in the thread, the criteria does not appear to be arbitrary and seems to be based on at least some level of logic.

 

SA

[Fat Old Guy]

"The Philmont Weight Requirements are also backed up by the information that the Life Insurance Companies which show that as group those who weight more than the ideal weight are more likely to die prematurely from heart attacks."

 

So are smokers and heavy drinkers but they aren't excluded.

[NeilLup]

I believe there may be some other factors at play here. The primary one is the "I'm an important person, those rules don't apply to me." There have been cases where very prominent Scouters went to Philmont who were clearly out of shape but insisted that they go on a trek, etc. It put the local Philmont staff and even the National office in a difficult position when someone says "I give a million bucks a year to this organization and I demand to go." At that point, Philmont can point to the weight rules which apply to everybody

 

There also might be (although I'm not sure there are) legal considerations if one started arbitrarily saying "Weight rules apply to everybody but, of course, not to you."

 

I do know from personal experience that exceptions to the rules are not made. We had been told by the conference chairman (top volunteer) at PTC that we would be permitted to do a certain activity which he offered, we didn't ask for. The matter was referred by the staff to the Director of Philmont who overruled the conference chairman and said no exceptions would be made.

[Fat Old Guy]

I'm sure that if a 400 lb man waved a million dollar check at National, Philmont would let him go on a trek and have a Medivac helicopter on standby.

[scoutingagain]

"I'm sure that if a 400 lb man waved a million dollar check at National, Philmont would let him go on a trek and have a Medivac helicopter on standby. "

 

As I said, as a private camp, Philmont is free to set it's own criteria for participation. They are also free to change the criteria when they wish and they are free to change them back again.

 

SA

 

[txscoutdad]

FOG

Flights above 12,500 feet in a unpressurized cabin requires O2. You're still fine at the altitudes at Philmont's top elevations "if" your in shape and your lungs can oxygenate the body adequetly enough. Thats why you only see Sherpas who live at Everest altitude try it with out O2.