Examples - Crew Member who shouldn't have been on High-A trek?

[Mike F]

I'm working an issue concerning how to determine BEFORE a high-adventure trip if someone really doesn't have what it takes to be successful on that particular trek. (Details unimportant, but some in another thread under "Issues and Politics.")

 

There are lots of sources that tell us participants need to be physically capable of the challenge, be able to take care of themselves, and need to function within the crew environment. As trip leaders, it's our job to make sure every person has a reasonable chance of success and sometimes it's a tough call.

 

The questions for any past high-adventure trek leaders:

1. Have you ever allowed a person (scout or advisor) to go on the trip against your better judgment and regretted it?

2. Same question, but the participant surprised you and the trek was a success for all involved?

 

Thanks! -mike

[VentureScoutNY]

Mike F:

 

"1. Have you ever allowed a person (scout or advisor) to go on the trip against your better judgment and regretted it? "

 

Yes, we had a young scout, not yet first class go on a high adventure backpacking trip. His father complained to high heaven that his son could do it. Our SM from hell, said Ok, agaisnt the wishes of the more qualified ASM's. The scout suffered from severe sun burns, and cried numerous times on the hike. It was unpleasant for everyone, hearing his pig headed father yelling at his son to keep up.

 

Mike F:

 

"2. Same question, but the participant surprised you and the trek was a success for all involved?"

 

Never.

 

 

C.O.P.E. course sets up guidlines that its participants must be 14 years of age, or a First Class Scout to participate on the Higher level course. If that scout does not meet these qualifications, the Scout can do a separate course geared more for his age range. Why do they set these guidelines? SAFETY FIRST

 

To determine if someone is qualified to take part in a High Adventure Trip you can do a number of things.

 

- set an age limit, or rank limit.

 

-Take part in some practice hikes or climbing, whatever you will be taking part in on the BIG trip. Say that if you wish to go on the BIG trip, you must come to the practices, or prove to the SM or ASM's you are cabable of completing a High Adventure Trip.

 

"As trip leaders, it's our job to make sure every person has a reasonable chance of success and sometimes it's a tough call."

 

Not only that everyone is a success, but that everyone is safe. Safety is the # 1 reason for having qualifications for attending a High Adventure Trip.

 

 

Goodluck!

 

 

[EagleInKY]

1. Have you ever allowed a person (scout or advisor) to go on the trip against your better judgment and regretted it?

When I was a crew leader, we allowed a scout from another troop to join our crew.  We felt we needed the extra muscle on the trip.  His troop was pretty inactive and he was kind of an outcast.  He never fit in well with our guys.  His personality just seemed to rub people the wrong way, but his dad (SM) was friends with our SM.  When we got to Philmont and were faced with the physical and mental challenges (as mentioned in a related thread), the personality conflicts surfaced, and it made it a much more frustrating and challenging experience.  In retrospect, we shouldn't have included him.

2. Same question, but the participant surprised you and the trek was a success for all involved?

Actually, yes.  On another Philmont trip, we had an undersized Scout.  He was a great kid, just tiny.  He was a very small lad (about 90 pounds as I remember).  He was fairly athletic, given his small build.  He ran cross country and track as well as participated in other sports.  There were concerns as to whether he could make it.  While he couldn't carry the normal 40-45 lb pack, he was able to carry a pack in the 35-40 lb range.  As it turned out, he was a great asset to our crew.  The fact that he was carrying such a large percentage of his weight was an encouragement to the bigger kids.  The physical challenge was tremendous to him, and he had some problems, but overall it was a great experience for him.

[KoreaScouter]

I have two examples.

 

We just formed a Venture patrol within the Troop, and in addition to the minimum Venture requirements, the patrol members fully intend to apply additional requirements to individual events, outings, and adventures. For example, they're in the very preliminary stages of planning a winter break adventure on the Big Island, which will include high-altitude snow hiking up to one of the observatories. They've discussed requiring the Emergency Prep and Wildnerness Survival MBs as a pre-requisite to going.

 

Second example; in my last unit, we did an annual "medium adventure" trip to a semi-tropical island 60 miles off the coast. A week away from family, US medical facilities, etc. We set a minimum 2nd Class rank requirement for attendees, in addition to the Class 3 physical, etc.

 

Especially when you get into this realm, it's imperative that you look closely at every potential attendee's level of maturity, problem solving, people skills, mental toughness, and so on. It's easy to maintain the veneer when you're rested, comfortable, hydrated, and nourished. Start diminishing those, and that's where the "sqared away" factor comes into play.

 

KS

[willysjeep]

My troop has had it's share of regular scouts who lacked the physical and mental abilities to tough out a 20 mile long weekend hike. When my troop's venture patrol plans a long hike we have two shakedown weekend long hikes set up before the big one. The whole troop goes on these shorter hikes. It was on one of these that the above happened. A 90 pound 15 year old showed up with a 40 pound pack and a really bad attitude. When he refused to pack up on the second day we split up his gear and hauled it for him while he pouted. He did NOT go on the week long hike we had planned for Isle Royal later that summer. We required everybody to go on at least these two shakedowns, with some exceptions for those who could only make one because of a schedule conflict (mostly older kids with jobs). The system works, and it is simple and fair. If they can't cut a weekend hike chances are they won't even want to hike a whole week.

[Mike F]

Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate it!

 

We had an incident during a council shakedown hike a couple of weekends ago. Crew decided on Saturday evening what time they would get up to start packing out on Sunday morning. One of the scouts - the Asst Crew Leader, who had a bad attitude all weekend - refused to get out of bed. After several wakeup calls and disrespectful replies, the Crew Leader dropped the tent on his recalcitrant assistant. (The assistants father is one of the adult advisors. Although plenty steamed, he let the scouts work it out.) The crew was the last of 20+ to come dragging back into base camp about an hour after the others. A couple of evenings later, the Crew Advisor had a conference with scout at scouts home. (Asst Crew Advisor/dad was present.) The scout apologized for his actions, but he was officially placed on probation status last warning one more incident and hes out. At our next meeting, he apologized to the crew for his actions. He and the Crew Leader have started meeting to discuss how they can work together better to help the crew.

So far, so good. At least he knows were serious.

-mike