Winter Camporee

[Eamonn]

As is known I am very much a fair weather camper. I dislike the cold and dislike being cold. Some might say that I'm a real sissy when it comes to the cold.

Our District used to have a winter camporee. The last one three years ago was over a very cold weekend. I attended with all of my cold weather gear and was still cold. Some of the troops were totally unprepared to camp under these conditions.In fact I was worried about the health and welfare of some of the Scouts. Boys with no change of clothes inadequate sleeping gear and menus that were very poorly planned.

I was very upset and went to the district committee meeting and was very instrumental in taking this event off the district calendar. In fact we replaced it with a Snow Day held at a local Ski resort.

Just like a bad dream it is coming back to haunt me. The Activities Committee want to bring it back. My thinking is that if a unit wants to do this that is all well and good, however if the District is holding the event the District needs to set some sort of guidelines maybe in the way of a shakedown and maybe a training event. This sounds good but it is not what the District ought to be doing.

What are your thoughts?

Eamonn

[purcelce]

Our Klondike will be a one day event on a Saturday. Troops have the option to camp Sat night.

 

[KoreaScouter]

I think it's great for a District to offer a wide variety of outdoor opportunities, including cold weather camping (if you get cold weather where you live...see KS get longingly misty-eyed). It's up to the unit leadership to determine if they're going to participate, and if they do, to ensure they're prepared to participate safely and in a way that will allow the Scouts to look on the experience fondly, rather than with dread.

 

Cold weather camping skills are not a mystery. We taught them and used them in Korea, and the lads had a great time (plus a big boost in self-confidence afterward). Fieldbook's got a pretty good chapter on winter camping, and the commercial stuff from Backpacker, REI, the internet, and other sources is readily available.

 

That said, those optional activities shouldn't be an arm-twist. If a Scout or leader told me he just didn't want to winter camp, I wouldn't hold it against him.

 

KS

 

 

[evmori]

Ours is a one day event. Troops can camp overnight if they want.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[JimmyD]

With flyer hand outs i would have the district make a list of what to bring for cold weather camping that might make the troops more prepared.

[OldGreyEagle]

I may be missing something, these Troops are from western PA and they don't know how to winter camp? Or what it takes to stay warm? I don't think its the DIstrict's job to be sure the scouts have appropriate equipment, isnt that someone elses job?

[hops_scout]

Purcelce, is your troop camping? We are!

Lots of new gear to play with;)

[EagleInKY]

We had our district Klondike Derby last weekend. Temperature in the 20's & 30's. Rained the whole time, mixed with freezing rain and snow. We ended up calling it off early (Saturday evening) instead of Sunday morning because the weather was supposed to take a turn for the worse. Most of the troops bailed after dinner Saturday.

 

I took 7 First Year scouts and 4 Webelos. Most of them had a great time. They were muddy and cold, but didn't seem to mind. There were two kids that were pretty miserable. But, they did not come prepared. One of them ended up wearing borrowed clothes, since he only brought cotton clothes with him. I had two boys not come. They had school-related activities (but it seemed like they were looking for any excuse). Actually, one of them did come out and help us pack up - he was planning on spending Saturday night only.

 

To prepare, I covered winter camping twice in November and took them on an overnighter, with the temperature just dropping to around 40. We then covered winter camping a few more times leading up to the Klondike. The only thing I may have done differently would have been to have a shakedown at a troop meeting before the event.

 

Also, I had promised the parents that if the temperature forecast dropped into the teens, we would not spend the night, but only go out for the day. The rain was not forecasted - I may have not camped if I had known how nasty that was going to be.

 

All in all, it was a success. The boys learned, no one got hurt, and they actually won one event. (They were the smallest & youngest group of boys out there.) They're proud of that blue ribbon!

[scoutldr]

I can sympathize with Eammon. I am getting of the age (get my AARP card this year!) where the bones ache and nature calls several times a night (compounded by too much hot coffee to stay warm!). Cold makes me just plain miserable. We rarely get snow here, and camping in cold, wet muddy conditions is about the worst I can think of. But that should not stop anyone else who enjoys it. Our "Freezoree" is in February. Just a weekend campout for anyone in the Council who wants to show up. The OA sponsors it and offers a special patch. Spring Camporee is in April, and the standing joke is that it is usually 60-70 degrees for the Freezoree and then we freeze (and get wet) in the Spring. Like someone else said...it's the Unit leadership's job to make sure their troop is trained and prepared. Present lots of cold weather topics at Roundtable. Make sure every scout knows the symptoms and treatment for hypothermia. I always make sure to have a couple of spare sleeping bags and blankets in the car. If kids get wet (or sleeping bags get wet from rain), and we can't get them dry quickly, we go home.

[nldscout]

Us Polar Bears here in Northern New York are used to the cold. We are winter camping this weekend. Some may stay inside, but some will be outside in the Quinzee's that we are building. Supposed to be a balmy -20 at night. If you have the gear and training you can camp out anytime.

[Eamonn]

The District did send a list of needed equipment to each troop. As to if the leader passed it on to the Scouts? It would seem not.

I have to wonder at how some parents can send a boy out in the cold without a change of gear or even a warn coat.

To make matters even worse many of the troops have got away from having troop tents and now these little Lads are in a $19.95 tent from K-Mart or someplace.

As for the Leaders of some of these troops I just don't know where they are coming from. Yes this is S.W Pa. So you would think that they would be better prepared. Could be that the cold has made them lose a few too many of the little gray cells?

With the wind chill it is going down to about 5F tonight. The schools had a two hour delay due to the cold. I question the wisdom of taking young Lads camping when it is like this. It is one thing to get caught in it. But to plan for it? I just don't see it being much fun.

And yes my AARP card will be in the mail next year.

Eamonn

[evmori]

OGE,

Winter camping is a breeze! We usually camp a different weekend & just do the winter camporee as a day event. I like winter camping!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[JimmyD]

If you sent a list out with a check list nothing else you can do. My dads gotten to the point where he can't stand the cold either.

[Eamonn]

Maybe the BSA needs to make sure that everyone understands that OA is the Order Of the Arrow and not Old and Arthritic!!

Eamonn

[mk9750]

I can't recall if I've ever bored you all with my own youth Scouting story, but here's an appropriate place to do so.

 

Back when I was a Cub, the tradition was to cross over to Boy Scouts at the Pack meeting after your 11th BD. My BD being Feb 10, I crossed to a Troop (actually, the Troop I'm with now) a week before the Klondike. Despite my parents very animated protests, nothing was going to stop me from going on my first campout.

 

I remember having a blast. I was in charge of cooking a pancake on the bottom of a coffee can without any utensils, and we got the most nuggets! Everyone in my Patrol patted me on the back, and I was a hero. I loved it!

 

The temperatures that weekend ranged from 10 above to 10 below. I was having such a good time, I didn't realize it, but when I got home, I couldn't feel my toes. Two days later, my mom took me to the doctor, and I had frostbite. My mom told me that if a SM wasn't smart enough to make us come home with temperatures like we had, then he wasn't smart enough to have me in the Troop, and that was the last Scout meeting I attended until my son wanted to join.

 

It is BECAUSE of the above, not in spite of it, that I have to disagree with you, Eamonn. Surely, I did not belong out camping in those conditions. I had netiher the knowledge or the equipment to camp safely in zero degree weather. But I think for those of us who live in the climates conducive to freezing temperatures, we owe it to our Scouts to teach them how to live, work, and have fun in them. It's likely that at least one or two of the guys in my Troop will grow up to have a job that requires exposure to the elements, even in winter. It's possible that one or more of them may adventure as an adult into winter camping situations, or find themselves accidently exposed to harsh elelments. If we don't utilize one of the methods at our disposal (Outdoor activities) to provide that backround, I think we've failed them.

 

Frankly, I hate the cold now. And I truly don't like camping in it, for various reasons, not the least of which is that I am too big to be able to dress inside a sleeping bag anymore. Add to that the problem I have in common with sctldr, causing me to have to find the latrine at least a couple of time during the night, and I promise you, now that I think about it, I don't hate winter camping, I DETEST IT!

 

But still, you can find me this coming weekend, Friday evening through Sunday morning, watching almost 400 boys learn and have fun camping in northern Ohio. I will have many functions this weekend, but my most important, even if it unofficial, is watching out for those that may be in the same boat as I was 34 years ago. Hopefully, the event SPL (a boy from our Troop) who has been making the rounds to Troops in the area, will have done a good enough job explaining winter camping skills. But we've been doing this event for years and years now, and I am convinced that any boy who comes prepared (knowledge and equipment) will do fine. And as KS said, the boost to their self confidence is huge - and not artificial.

 

One last thing. This year, our SM was able to convince the committee that we should offer the Troops the choice of eating in the dinning hall or making their own meals in camp. We have always served dinner in the dinning hall, on the premis that we should give guys a chance to warm up. We were suprised to learn that so far, only two Patrols (not whole Troops, but two PATROLS) have decided to eat in the dinning hall. Everyone else is cooking in their campsites.

 

Eamonn, I can respect anyone who doesn't want to camp in the winter. I've got no problem with that. But I honestly think it is a very worthwhile activity for boys in our area, and would encourage you to consider adding it back to your District's program.

 

Mark