Over the counter medications

[eisely]

This might belong under a different category, but here goes...

 

What over the counter drugs have people found useful to take along on outings?

 

Here is my short list:

 

Anti biotic ointment

Tylenol or other acetominephin product

Ordinary aspirin

Alieve

Tinactin or similar product

Benedryl or similar product

Immodium

 

There is another issue related to this for which I would like to solicit opinions.

 

A little over ten years ago I took the Red Cross Basic First Aid class for the first time. That instructor took great pains to tell us that it was illegal for us, as non licensed good samaritans, to provide any medications to anyone who was not a family member. She was adamant on this point. I have continued to ask other instructors for their opinions on this point and generally get a shrug or an "I don't know." Will the attorneys out there offer an opinion on this. Maybe this instructor was concerned only about California law.

[Bob White]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't act as one, and most scout leaders aren't physicians or pharmacists and shouldn't act like one. The Bsa does not want us giving ANY medications other than topical applications such as anti-biotic ointments, ivy dry, calomine.... to the scouts. Read the Guide to Safe scouting. Scouts and their parents or legal guardians are responsible for a scouts medication.

 

Stick to topical applications only. Never give a scout internal medication that he has not brought himself in the original container.

 

Bob White

[ASM7]

Eisely

On our permission slip for each outing, there is a space for the parent to list any medications the scout is taking and any over the counter meds that they approve of to give the scout in case of minor emergencies. There is also a space for them stating they have informed the leader, gives the leaders name and another space for them to state if the boy is responsible enough to administer his own meds or if the leader should be responsible. All of this information has to be initialed by the parent. We also keep their most recent medical form with us. These are all updated before scout camp so they remain current all year. We also request the class 3 form because of the high adventure outings we go on.

Doug

[Bob White]

It is important to know that only the SM can decide if he or she is willing to distribute medication. The BSA does not require nor does it recommend such a practice.

 

Also be aware that there are some very common medications that unless you are the patient or the parent or legal guardian of the patient, it would be a federal crime for you to possess or distribute even to the patient.

 

Bob White

[eisely]

This is interesting. A few years ago in Scouter magazine there was a piece by a physician who was an avid scouter about first aid on the trail. This guy was an experienced backpacker and had a similar list of medications he recommended carrying. He never raised the subject of G2SS or legalities at all. The entire article implied it was OK for ordinary scouters to administer these kinds of medications. Isn't it reasonable for scouters to rely on this magazine as authoritative or is somebody not looking at the content?

 

I need to revisit G2SS on this subject. For the record, this has never become an issue for me on the trail, but I have occasionally wondered about the contradictions served up by various experts.

[Bob White]

I think the advice given by the hiking physician was good if you are a physician. It would also be fine for your own personal medication. I really doubt that the article suggested medicating children.

Bob White

[scomman]

Sometimes as Scout Leaders we are ginev medication to adminster to the youth on outings. The reason for this is all the boy's except one is on medication for ADD and other conditions where not giving the medicine could have consequences. We have tried in the past to rely on the Youth taking their medications on time and they always forget that is why the adult leadership has to.

 

 

[Bob White]

Scomman,

Reread the Guide to Safe Scouting. Adult leaders can choose to, but they don't have to, and it is not recommended that they do. You can remind scouts to take it. You can require parents to join the outing to see that the the scout takes medicine. When you say a leader "has to" that is not correct. A Leader can "choose to" against the recommendation of the BSA.

 

My son's troop has 39 scouts,(diabeties, allergies, ADHD, headaches, you name it) and the adults do not handle any of their medications, and it has never been an issue.

 

It is important to know who has what with them and when thay need to take it. The scout should tell you before taking meds, but no leader "has to" store or distribute. It is a dangerous practice.

 

Bob White

[ASM7]

Also if you do accept the responsibility, make sure the medicine is in the original container with dosage instructions. Its too easy to make a mistake. I had a parent one time bring meds in a baggie. There was more than one medicine in the bag (no-no) and I was supposed to remember which was which. To beat that, the parent was a doctor!

[Mike Long]

Nope, not gonna do it.

I'm never going to be responsible for anothers medications.

I'm also not going to allow others to browbeat me into doing so.

 

"But he won't take it."

Sorry, it's called personal responsibility. Remembering to take medications is something that needs to be learned at home and brought into the woods, not the other way around. Welcome to Boy Scouts son, time to learn a new skill. I'll remind him (frequently) but that's it.

[ASM7]

We do keep up to date Epi-pens (adult and child sizes) in our troop Firt Aid Kit. My son was just on Fall Fellowship weekend for OA and was stung by a yellow jacket. His hand was really swollen, but did not have respiratory problems, but it could happen. I wasn't there but I'm sure the OA didn't have Epi-pens available. Something to think about. We started carrying them when a scout with allergies to peanuts joined the troop. We even had lessons on the use of the pens for the scouts. Out in the woods is where they are more likely to be stung and you may not have time to get him out. And what if poison ivy gets into the campfire somehow? For those who are allergic, this can be deadly if enhaled.

Doug

[scomman]

Forgot to add a part to my previous post. "but remember to we have a paramedic as a ASM". He makes sure our first aid kits are up to date and complete as well as any other equipment we might neeed.

[LauraT7]

you also have to be aware of laws differing from state to state - most camps will tell you of their requirements.

 

We had our first time at a new summer camp in Wisconsin this year, and State law requires all medication to be stored and distributed by a nurse at camp. I had forgotten this, but this was true even when I was a girl scout 30 yrs ago in Wis.

 

We were used to Illinois camps - where the rules were set by our council - at our camps, they require that medications be registered with the camp office, but kept and distributed by 1 adult in each unit. Boys were not allowed to keep and carry their own meds, except in rare, particular cases (insulin dependent diabetics and asthma inhalers come to mind) We usually look at the bag of meds - and the parent on the campout with the kid who has the most meds, usually gets the job!

 

To Mike Long - If you truly knew any young, severly ADHD boys - "personal responsibility" has nothing to do with it. They seldon can remember, and even multiple reminders often don't help - as they will totaly lose track of why they're going back to their tent - even the 5th or 6th time you "remind" them to take their meds. They usually have to be "off" their meds to sleep, and it is no longer in their system to help them focus on the task of remembering. Some can be taught a habit of taking their meds - most just can't remember - there's too many different and distracting things to make them focus on a silly pill - and then you and your troop will pay the price of having an overstimulated, over wound kid to deal with!

 

If you don't want to handle their meds, I understand - but I hope someone in you troop would be understanding enough of the boy to bug him until they see the boy take his meds!

 

the other issue with "personal responsibility" and having the boys keep their own meds - and esp with ADHD, ODD and other medications for similar things - these ARE simulants and anti-depressants - drugs that have value and could be stolen, or used by another kid for a thrill.

 

Don't kid yourself that just because they are scouts and good kids - that they aren't tempted and may do use them improperly.

 

I don't know about you - but I'd rather dole out the pills as marked on the bottle - than have to explain to Billy's parents that he tried a handful of Timmy's Ritalin 'cause they were just laying around the tent, and that's why we're in the hospital with a comatose kid!

 

Most of our boys ARE responsible about their meds - They know which adult has them, and will seek out that adult when they need to take them. Except for SOME of the ADHD boys, I seldom have to remind them anyway.

[SR540Beaver]

I understand Bob's concern and the BSA's position on meds. That being said, there is a difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Of course they need to learn personal responsibility.....but. How many kids do you know of who have lost something on a campout? What if it is their meds and what if it is something their life depends on such as insulin. What if they go into insulin shock, are dazed or comatose and need an injection of Glucagon. Bob, are you going to stand there and look at them and say too bad? If it is over the counter meds such as Tylenol or Sinus pills, OK. If it is Ritalin, Insulin, etc. the prudent thing to do is make an adult responsible for holding all meds for safekeeping at the very least. What if a kid has meds that are light sensitve and he leaves them in the doorway of his tent thinking they are safe. Then as the sun moves across the sky on an August afternoon it shines in thru his tent door. What if it is insulin that needs to be kept cold? What if you are floating down a river on a canoe and the kid is keeping it in a pocket and it tips over? Sure, they are SUPPOSED to keep it in a water proof floatable container, but kids do the darndest things don't they. I'd rather have a designated meds person control the drugs than have to pack a severly sick or dying kid out of the backwoods because of my principles. Safety first, legal concerns second.

 

My 2 cents.

[Bob White]

kwc57,

Your are absolutely right there is a difference between cub Scout and boy scout campimping.

 

One of those differences being that every Cub Scout must have a parent, guardian or responsible adult with them on the activity. So in Cub Scouting there is no need to request the unit leader to be responsible for the medication.

 

Secondly, yopu wrote "the prudent thing to do is make an adult responsible for holding all med" That is the entire thrust of what the Guide to Safe Scouting is saying. You cannot MAKE someone responsible. You can request them to be responsible, but they can, and the BSA prefers, that they say "no". If the medication is vital to their life then the youth needs to be capable of self-administering the meds or the parent should be in attendance.

 

I have had diabetics in packs and troops that I have served and they have always carried their own meds, and they were well trained in how to use them. Part of having the disease is knowing how to cope with it.

 

In order to provide the best possible care for the scout and follow state and federal drug regulations, as well as protect our volunteers from civil and criminal litigation, the BSA recommends that leaders not become involved in providing medication to other peoples children.

 

It makes sense.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)