High Adventure Trips

[Chief Decorah]

What kind of High Adventure trips do your Troops take? Do you go mainly to the BSA National bases (Northern Tier, Sea Base and Philmont) or do you go other places?

 

My guess is, with only three national bases, Troops are taking many different types of high adventure trips to many different areas around the country.

 

Our Troop is going to Isle Royale National Park in Lake Superior next summer for a week long backpacking trip. We'll be hiking 50 miles and earning the 50 Miler award on the trip. Slowly, but surely, our trek is coming together with new lighter-weight gear purchases, hike planning, food ideas, cooking gear and the like. It's very challenging, but we're really looking forward to the trip.

 

I've seen Venture Crews and other Troops taking bike trips to Great Britain, backpacking in the Rockies, canoeing in some wilderness territories. Any experienced High Adventure trekkers care to share their experiences with the group?

[slontwovvy]

Since you appear to be headed out in that area anyway, try the Chippewa Valley Council's Camp Phillips near Phillips, WI for some great high adventure. Another idea is taking a sea kayaking trip to WI's Apostle Islands for a week or two--my troop did it last year, and it was incredible. So much fun, and cheaper than the high adventure bases.

[k9gold-scout]

Our troop was featured in the June 2001 issue of "Boys Life" backpacking on the John Muir Trail, finishing up a 10 day trip by climbing Mt Whitney. We plan at least one 50 miler in addition to summer camp each year. Many scout camps have high adventure trips, for example Trapper Trals Council has Camp Loll outside Yellowstone NP. They have programs for both 1st year scouts and high adventure trecks for older scouts.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

[Chief Decorah]

What are your biggest challenges preparing for the trip? What parameters did you set for Scouts to participate? How much did your trips cost? What did you do for fundraising? Did you have any problems getting adults signed up? Any interesting stories related to forgetting something important? How did your Troops choose light-weight equipment?

 

Our trip to Isle Royale is going to cost somewhere around $300 (and we're in Wisconsin). I can only imagine the cost for Troops traveling to the National bases, as well as other high adventure places.

 

Sorry to ask so many questions. It's our Troop's first high adventure trek and these are things that have come up. Hopefully, it leads to some good discussion.

[slontwovvy]

Generally, since we've found ways to maximize on high adventure opportunities close to home, $300 seems very exorbitant (but I've never been to Isle Royale, so I wouldn't know). Usually, though, the troop provides about $100 subsidy for each boy (it's part of their annual fundraising efforts). We might do smaller fundraiser to gain $50-$100 dollars for each boy participating, but for the rest of it, they're on their own. We found that for in-state (we're from Wisconsin too) $300 is an absolute max (that's what it cose for our week-and-a-half long trek through the Apostles by sea-kayak, including food, guides, and equipment.

 

Economizing is big. We use our troop's old tents for backpacking, we sleep in churches or army bases en-route, etc. We also go with all-inclusive packages--i.e. in our trip to Philmont this summer we take the train, which includes food and amenities.

 

We've usually not had problems with adults wanting to go--indeed, we usually have to turn them away. When new parents see pictures of what we've been doing, they usually want to sign up for the next one too.

[eisely]

One of the advantages of living in California is the number of opportunities for major outings within a day's drive. The main thing we lack is good canoeing water for extended canoe outings.

 

To respond to some of the points raised.

 

The major cost is more often the cost of getting to and from a destination. $300 for a week long outing is a bargain. Fortunately we live in an affluent area and cost is seldom an obstacle for anybody. If cost is an object, fund raisers need to be incorporated into the plan.

 

How do we determine who gets to go? We do not normally limit participation, but do require participation in training events. This results in some self selection. My experience has been that those who have the most difficulty with major outings are the ones who avoided training.

 

Yes we do sometimes have difficulty getting sufficient adult participation. This remains a problem for which there is no easy solution.

[slontwovvy]

Generally, our troop has the policy of not allowing anyone who has not completed the eighth grade to come along on the high adventure outings. This is understood and explained to every new scout who enters the troop. Not only does this provide them with something to look forward too, but it also helps with the level of physical and emotional readiness. High Adventure is supposed to be physically, sometimes emotionally exhausting. Thus, we find that occasionally "holding boys back", they are more eager to participate later and are more well-prepared for what they face.

[johnmbowen]

Our Troop does exclusively high adventure, and has been very successful. We have good retention with older kids, and have a lot of fun. We are lucky enough to accumulated a group of adults who are experts in their field of recreation whom we ask for help only when the kids are interested in that kind of trip. We pull these adults in as ASMs but call them "specialists." They help do the extensive training for the kind of trips they do anyway, and the kids not only get to go, but to learn a great deal about that form of recreation.

 

For example, we worked hard for three months on caving, vertical caving and cave navagation. We then went to a big vertical cave and spent a weekend exploring it. Well, OK it is a commonly done cave, but each Scout had to construct a Frog System (ascender system) that was used to climb out of the cave. We worked very closely with our Local NSS Grotto to teach cave ethics and techniques. Everyone liked it, and the Grotto members were highly impressed with the Scouts. (Usually the opposite attitude is encountered amongst the outdoor community about Scouts). We also train our Scouts from elevin on as white water boatmen, using the same subjects as river guides (several of us are professional boatmen) then letting them run big rivers. We just did Deso Gray on the Green River (84 miles) and the Scouts ran their own boats all the way. We also just got back from Mexico where we got within 500 feet of the summit of Orizaba (18800ft) in full conditions before turning around.

 

Is there a compilation or history of BSA high adventure stories at all? I have not seen any at all. You would think that with so much going on that Scouts would accidently do something that is of interest to the adult outdoor adventure community! If there is not such a history, well, lets start one!! Didn't they use to have novels about Scout adventures back in the first part of the last century??

 

JB

 

[andrews]

How do you deal with younger scouts if you do high adventure exclusively?

 

Brad

[johnmbowen]

Younger Scouts and High Adventure:

 

Part of the method is the makeup of the Troop itself. All the youngsters coming into the Troop know what this troop is about right away. We have posters of previous trips on the walls and we take them through them, with their parents. The kids who are not interested, dont' join up. We also have a nice webpage (which needs updating) that the parents can look at (check Wyoming Troops, and 136 from Laramie) that spells out what we do. They come looking for high adventure...same as seen in the handbook.

 

The second part is that at the first meeting they attend, we start seasonal demonstrations (just talking about it doesn't cut it with younger kids)on how to dress for the next trip, what that trip will be about, and a hands on lesson on how to operate on that trip. Of course we don't immediately expose them to a harsh trip right away, but invite them on a comfortable trip to start, which is a part of a larger trip that the older guys go on.

 

For instance during this time of the year (Ski and snowcave season), we start talking about what to wear, layering and the acceptable kinds of clothing to wear. (We also talk to the parents as well, and have a casche of old polypro underwear and fleece etc for the ones who don't have the bucks to buy them.) This talk consists of a complete set of clothes pulled inside themselves as if they were being worn. Polypro underwear (never cotton...part of the talk...showing the differences), fleece, shells, wollen or fleece sweaters, gloves+inners, and socks+inners, hats, overmits, sun glassess and sun screen. The kids take off layers and put them on the clothes dummy.

 

We next haul out the skis and go over bindings, boots, gaiters, waxes, non-waxibles, poles and then have the kids learn in the meeting how to turn around on skis, get up off the ground, etc.

 

We then schedule a trip that has two parts. The first part is a short ski-around on a short trail to introduce the new Scouts to the activity, followed by play for them. During the play time the older Scouts head off on a more advanced trail (if the little guys want to go and seem capable of handling it we assign an adult or older scout to shadow them). We always have enough adults around to go around, as we do the fun things that they like to do normally without Scouts along.

 

Rock Climbing is even easier, as the whole group (we are a small Troop of no more than 10) can be in the same general area. (Climbs are set up by the older Scouts and checked and critiqued by the ASMs) The technical part of the meeting consists of familiarization with climbing equipment, and learning to tie the appropriate knots (not skimping on the ones needed for advancement, but the kids don't need to know about that! As far as they are concerned, each knot is extremely important and needs to be well learned for a very important reason..."I get to go!" Older Scouts are taught more advanced skills such as constant tension top rope anchors, etc. They (the young ones) are never forced to go all the way on any trip, and can back out when necessary. When they see everyone else doing it, they bump on the edge of their ability envelope a few times and gain little by little. But we don't make special little trips for them very often. Camping skills are often learned on climbing trips which are generally not too far (about 1 mile usually)from the cars, so they don't have to carry too much. The older Scouts are used to some Sherpa duty.

 

Well, so the little guys freeze up in the first five feet off the deck...well, they see the older guys up trying new climbs and they get used to it. It is a source of pride when they actually get up the entire first climb (usually around 5.6) and an accomplishment that is more respected among the older guys than any badge.

 

Same thing for rafting. Even the little guys can row part of the way on flat water, and they don't seem to mind if the older guys take over for the rapids, so long as they get to go!

 

All of these learning activities include in them advancement activities that are recorded for the first three ranks. After these ranks, the Scout is encouraged to go on, but is not forced. The outings, no matter the season, draw the boys back to the Troop because they are fun to the point of addiction. I don't believe in segregating the young ones, unless the actual outing is too physically demanding...such as ski mountaineering, or our last climb of El Pico de Orizaba, or mandated by the BSA as in caving. But even with these, it doesn't hurt to prepare the boys for these trips, it even enhances their interest.

 

Some of our Scouts even "specialize." One Scout likes mountain biking, but not climbing or rafting, which is OK. On our Desolation and Gray's Raft trip, we also had two boatfuls of parents (we adults were banished to our own boats, though we often ran point and sweep.

 

JB

[johnmbowen]

Hi Folks, I had to write this up for one of the groups that I work with, and since I saw that some of you are interested in ideas as well, thought I would bore you with some of these. Note that I abbreviated backpacking, as there is a very complete discussion here.

 

High Adventure Ideas for Scouts

Water Stuff: Assuming you have or can rent canoes and or kayaks. Note, be sure to train your Scouts very well in all aspects of river safety. Safety Afloat is NOT sufficient. A source of trainers is to find out who in your area runs rivers a lot. Try them. Also call the American Canoe Association (or look up their web page) and find out who is an ACA certified instructor. A minimum of training would involve: Self Rescue, Boat based rescue, swift water safety (ie how to swim and what to do if you are in swift water), the use of throw bags and other rescue devices (including helmets where applicable), as well as the ability to un-capsize what ever boat is being used. All this in addition to the regular swim safety, buddy system, and the ability to actually swim. Include a final test of the boys in more or less swift water (in a safe area with a large pool at the bottom to catch them) where they practice swimming in swift water in PFDs as well as throw bag practice for the others. Check with the university Outdoor Adventure program for possible instructors.

1. Many universities with an Outdoor Adventure program often have kayak roll sessions where they can teach people how to do an Eskimo Roll. If you dont bring but several interested kids along, then you may get in for free, or a nominal fee. Kayaks are often available. These people also have a long list of places to go. HS kids can sometimes go as the University can look at this as a recruitment tool.

2. Go to most any river that has an outfitter on it and rent canoes or kayaks for a trip, or go rafting on a commercial river.

3. If you have a source of canoes/kayaks/rafts, pick out ANY section of a flat water (Class I, or even Class II) river and go on a day or overnight trip. I have found a great deal of pleasure in exploring the upper end of lakes, and nosing my boat back into flooded creeks. The wildlife is great, and the speed boaters are NOT there.

4. Find some Private Boaters who will work with your group to take you farther. They would probably help if you dont insist that they be at EVERY meeting all the time, but would be called on only for teaching and that particular outing.

Climbing: Most places have some kind of climbing available. If you have a climber/parent or adult leader and are not using them, shame on you! Check your local outdoor dealership and just ask. Find out if anyone teaches climbing and co-opt them for a teacher as in 4. above. Make sure that your instructor is able to set bombproof, safe and redundant top rope anchors and is up to date in these. Ask questions. Dont overload your climbs with 40 kids. Just take along those willing to learn. They should know absolutely how to use the figure 8 knot, clove hitch, prussick, and absolutely how to do a safe belay (which you can back up with a prussick knot if you are paranoid (as you well should be). Go OUTSIDE and only use a climbing gym if you have nothing else (alright that is my jaundiced trad idealism showing through).

5. Go anywhere that climbs are available. Start with established routes, many will have 2-3 bolts at the top along with chains for your top ropes. These are called Sport Routes and are generally (note that word) safe.

Caving: This is truly fun! But NOTE CAREFULLY, the very features that make caves so wonderful can be destroyed in an instant by unthinking Scouts or adults. SO: Get in contact with the National Speleological Society (NSS) and find out what the nearest NSS Grotto (Caving Club) and contact them. Ask if they can put on a caving instruction for your group (again dont do this 40-50 Scout overloadBSA requires ONLY 14 or older for this experience. LEARN Cave Conservation and Ethics, and abide by it. Only after the Grotto contact deems your group ready, then ask for a trip. Overtrain your Scouts on this one. They will love it. Volunteer to help with a Cave Restoration trip, the cavers will love you. DO NOT go on your own, unless YOU are that Grotto person, as above!

Other Ideas:

6. Here is a more complicated one, more work, but hey why not: The 24 hour experience. In this you set up a series of events for competition, just like an eco challenge. Things like fire building with 1 match, Tyrolean traverse...set it up and get your team across a creek or gorge, cook bread with a fire and no oven (all they get to eat, why not be nasty), climb a technical face or wall, or something, and get your team over, and any others that in your devious mind would be fun to see others do. Tie them together in a big compass course, and why not have some of the course be navagated using stars!! (yeah that is pretty harsh, ha ha), make part of the event with canoeing across part of a lake...whatever you like...and start the whole thing about dark. This could be an idea to get all the venture patrols/crews together to compete with, first one through all the events and gets back to the starting position wins!

7. Challenge or Ropes course for the touchy-feelie (Team Building). Its kinda fun, but hard to take seriously...Universities often have one, as do several other outfits around.

8. Why not have a mile wide capture the flag event done at night? Pick a section of land with a fence all around it.

9. Full fledged Orienteering Match. Challenge the other scout troops to play this game. Orienteering is where you get a map with points that have to be visited (some games have them in order, and some you just try to collect all you can in a given amount of time). The individual or team that finishes in the least amount of time wins. There are whole books on this topic, and with some effort and care, anyone can set one up. These can be done anywhere, even in a city!

10. Hiking down a river bed in the flatland states...just hike and wade down a flatwater river bed from one point to the next. An overnighter backpack would be super. In the winter The river is hardly deep and you can hike most of the way barefoot! OK, TX, NM, MO, AR, and all the Southern States would be super, and the water not too cold. Most states will allow you to sleep on the river bed but NOT the banks. A totally easy trip to do.

11. Backpacking pretty much anywhere. Start with a small trip nearby to get the hang of minimalist camping and the nomadic spirit. If you dont do thisSTART! It is hard to get into trouble. To make it more exciting, combine it with a road trip. Enough Said. This is a STAPLE of High Adventure.

12. Peak Bagging. All states have a high point (even Kansas, which has Mt. Sunflower!) Find it and bag or collect it. The mountain states all have mountains to bag, and most are walkups, and books and guides are available for the looking. Colorado by itself has 54 mountains above 14000 feet, and more than 100 others above 13000 feet, and it is a statewide mania to climb them. You can go on a road trip to knock off some 2-3 each time!

If you have any interest, email me and I can try to help you with one.

 

[k9gold-scout]

Trips here in Calif. are usually cheep The biggest cost is the pre-made food, each scout was responsible for their own food, and everything for the 10 days had to fit into a bear-proof plastic container. Our troop usually goes backpacking once per month and the scouts who want to go on the long-term hike must make the weekend hikes. Most scout camps will provide food for your backpacking trip. Camp Loll cost each scout about 600 and Philmont was about the same.

 

This year many of these scouts are in a Venture Crew and they have not yet selected their superactivity. They are trying to arrange military transport to Alaska.

[eagle90]

Our Troop runs a High Adventure trip every summer and this is what keeps our high school age scouts active. We have attended the Boundary Waters in Minnesota, but go thru a private outfitter instead of Sommers. We have found the price is a few dollars a day more, but the equipment, food, and service is far superior. I can give you the name of an outfitter there who is a veteran scouter (Silver Beaver, Wood Badge, Vigil). We have also been Whitewater Rafting on the New River in West Virginia, which was fairly economical. They also encourage scouts, and their staff members are Whitewater MB counselors. We have also been houseboating on Lake Cumberland KY and Table Rock Lake in MO. This year we are heading for Laguna Station on South Padre Island, TX, a base run by Rio Grande Council.

[johnmbowen]

Another interesting high adventure/training program from an outfitter which caters Scouts in the Rocky Mountain Area.

 

See www.hpoiadventure.com, look under Programs, then Teen Programs to see a listing called "Ultimate Adventure Program" which appears to be geared toward Scouts and includes climbing, mountaineering and rafting, which goes for 6 days at a reasonable price/person for so many events.

[dan]

Bump for Mike F. I am going to send eagle 90 a email to see if I can get the outfitter he has used in the past.

I have used Kawishiwi Lodge & Outfitters, but not with scouts.

You may want to check out this link http://www.ely.org/7.html