Properly wearing the OA sash on the uniform

[Jeffrey H]

"This issue is ONLY about wearing the OA sash to other scout functions, it has NOTHING to do with insignia wear."

 

Read my opening statement in the OP. The OA sash, like our insignia, is informed by the guide on how to properly wear it on or with the uniform. That's all. The guide is silent on when to wear it. I assume that gives freedom to the local Lodges to decide for themselves as a part of their traditions.

 

Not sure how "old fogey" and "secret society" stuff got pulled into a discussion about the proper wear of an OA sash but that happens sometimes in these forums. I'm 50, a physically active Cubmaster, and not a couch potato. I can tell you this, if the OA was a secret society, I would have nothing to do with it.

 

This is nothing to get upset about nor is this a hill to die on. I simply have made an obsevation and received responses (much more that I thought!). Believe me, I have far, far more important things to be concerned with than OA Sashes.

[qwazse]

It's amazing the kind of nerves you'll touch when you just reach out!

 

Whenever you read a negative in guide, remember that it got there because someone somewhere saw something, asked for a ruling, and got it!

 

I'd like to think that for the sash issue, the main concern was that the on-the-belt fashion would cause the insignia to be hidden when it could be displayed more prominently. I'd like to hope that those folks were not feeling that the style was being disrespectful to the organization.

 

In any case, how *you* decide to spin these things to the boys is very important. You shouldn't just parrot the rule and don't give any notion of why it makes sense to you. Neither should you say "that's what the guide said, but, you know, rules are meant to be broken." Rules should make sense, and in this case "increasing visibility of our arrowmen" makes more sense than saying "we don't want to be disrespectful." But, you gotta respect the fact that boys who were selected to this order wouldn't be the type who simply choose a non-compliant style of uniforming unless there was some sense in doing so.

 

But, that does beg the question of when lodge members should be visible and when they should "blend in." (Or rather, only be visible via cheerful disposition and servant leadership.) Also, it begs the question of what can you do to make the lodge flap catch the eye when a boy isn't sporting a sash?

[BadenP]

qwazse

 

WELL SAID!!!

 

What are these sash purists so afraid of anyway? I would love to see these scouts promote the OA at troop and community events by proudly displaying their sashes. To me it is clearly a win-win situation for the boys and the lodges.

[jrush]

Quaze, one thing you could do to make lodge flaps "catch the eye" is not have any more pocket-flap shaped patches.

 

IMO, since there are other patches on that pocket flap, the lodge flap doesn't stand out anymore and the sash is thus a far more effective piece of OA insignia.

 

If anything I would re-tailor the MB sash so the OA sash can be worn over it, with both of them running under the epaulette.

[Tampa Turtle]

As a non-OA observer I only really notice the sashes. It seems to generate some interest amongst the boys--properly worn or not. The pocket flaps are OK--the red on white is a bit bland but there are other pocket flaps available.

 

So I guess my point is who are the pocket flaps and sashes targeted toward? Fellow OA guys or the general scouting public? If it is the rest of scouts then let the sashes fly. If it just other OA brothers then you can have a secret lapel pin.

[jrush]

Tampa, many moons ago, OA members wore a pocket flap as their OA "insignia". They wore sashes at OA events/activities, just as a matter of tradition. You had different color borders on flaps to signify whether the wearer was a ordeal, brotherhood or vigil member whether the sash was worn or not. Several moons ago, the OA eliminated the differentiated flaps. hence, the appearance of the little "pocket rockets", the little mini-sash you'll see hung from a pocket button.

 

As a matter of tradition, the pocket flap was "reserved" for the OA flap. If there was a pocket flap, the wearer was OA.

 

Fast forward some moons. The pocket flap is no longer considered sacred territory. There are several different patches shaped to go on the pocket flap. Just off the top of my head, totin chit, fire chit, woodsman are all "flap shaped", and I've seen them all attached to the pocket flap. Yes, yes, they are "temporary patches", but they are shaped like a pocket flap, and the cool kids have patches on their pocket flaps. As a result, the OA lodge flap is no longer distinctive insignia, and to be distinctive, OA members have taken to wearing their sashes.

 

IMO, it looks sharp and will remain distinctive, at least until the BSA starts selling totin chit sashes.

 

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[Stosh]

It's too bad there isn't some sort of red arrow/white background kind of official patch to apply to an official part of the MB sash so that the two don't need to be present at the same time. The MB sash usually covers the OA patch if worn properly, thus the desire to wear the sash on the belt.

 

The old custom of collar brass for OA could also be considered.

 

Like WB maybe an official OA necker could be used on special occasions.

 

There are a lot of options out there that National OA should look at as a nice alternative to the whatever-works tradition we have out there now.

 

Stosh

[acco40]

Okay folks, consider this analogy. I think Wood Badge is a great training experience and has many other benefits as well. I feel I should promote it and therefore wear my "critter" regalia, neckerchief, beads, etc. to every Scouting event I attend. What is the reaction I get? Well, some folks are curious and ask about it. Some, usually fellow Wood Badgers may ask if I attended "real" or 21st Century Wood Badge. A large percentage don't say anything to me but respond to their peers or think to themselves - what a showoff, does he think he is better than us?

 

To me the OA is a service organization primarily, not an honorary society.

 

FYI, from the Order of the Arrow Chair himself

 

Ask the Chairman

 

Q. When should the OA sash be worn?

 

A. Your OA sash, wear it at OA events and when you represent the OA, over the right shoulder, never over the belt.

 

The Order of the Arrow Sash is the outward manifestation of the OA founding ideals: Brotherhood, Cheerfulness, and Service. The rule of thumb is its appropriate to wear the sash is when you are doing official Order of the Arrow business or attend an Order of the Arrow ceremony. We wear the sash as a symbol of an ideal, it is not a rank, and it is not an item to "show off" your honor.

 

Examples of inappropriate times to wear the OA sash:

 

Troop Meetings

Campouts

Courts of Honor

Trainings such as NYLT, Woodbadge, Den Chief Training, IOLS, BALOO

FOS Presentations

 

The only acceptation to these is you are representing the Order of the Arrow in an Official capacity.

 

Examples of appropriate times to wear the OA sash:

 

Unit Election

Lodge Fellowship

Chapter Meeting

Lodge Meeting

Winter Banquet

Section Conclave

OA Training Event

 

The OA sash should always be worn over the right shoulder; it is not appropriate to wear the sash on your belt, as a neck tie, as a head band, or at the same time as a merit badge sash.

[BDPT00]

Thanks acco. Looks pretty straight-forward to me. Easy to understand and follow.

BDPT00

[jpstodwftexas]

Back in the 1980's when I was elected to the Order of The Arrow in our Lodge it was customary to "carry" or "store" you Order of the Arrow Sash on you Belt..As long as it was folded to have the Arrow pointed up..and once a Member of the OA it was considered part of your Scout Uniform. Our Troop had uniform inspections and if you were an OA member and you were not carrying your sash you lost points just like not having your tote-n-ship on you. However it was Only to be Worn at OA Functions or Events representing OA with the Arrow pointed up and over the Right Shoulder. The Key is Worn vs Stored.

Such as OA troop elections, Tap Outs, Ordeals, OA Elections. It was not worn during work events or mundane chores. Think about it..if only OA Members are in attendance is there any reason to wear the Sashes to distinguish us from Nonmembers?

 

I carry/store the sash on my belt as part of my Scouting Uniform until told not to otherwise. Since I rejoined Scouting and Renewed my OA Dues I have yet to receive an actual OA Handbook.Being a Cub Scout Leader I have been asked what the Sash is for and I explain why I carry it..I explain about OA and what is suppose to be. I use it as a tool to inspire cub Scouts to carry on into Boy scouts and give them another Goal to aspire to. In the Last year I have never been asked by anyone what the meaning of the OA Patch was, however at every event I am asked by Scouts and Parents a like

 

Myself I have been out of Scouting for a number of years and things may have changed regarding the Sash..OA certainly has Such as women being allowed in OA

[johnponz]

Sorry, the practice of wearing the sash on the belt was not allowed in the '80s either. There are always a few rogue lodges that continue to practice "traditions" that are not allowed under the rules. I know that it was not allowed because I attended the National Leadership Seminar in 1981, and it was specifically mentioned that the sash is only allowed to be worn over the right should and is not allowed on the belt. Guess what, the same rules regarding when to wear the sash was also in effect. It was to be worn only when providing service as an arrowman or at OA events.

 

Now for opinion, OA membership is not something that one should "brag" or "show off." Those around you should know you are a member not because of some outward sign, but because of the cheerful service that you give. This is a good lesson for the Scouts who are in the OA. The sash does not matter, it is your attitude while providing service.

 

If the OA dies, but does so while the members are trying to live up to its ideals so be it. Better to have a dead OA than one that is a shell with no adherence to it ideals.

Members of the OA have a tradition of giving quiet cheerful service in the background, and that is the way it should continue. What we are trying to teach is that there is value and good feelings that come with providing the service. This requires no outward sign. All who see you should recognize your membership based on your actions.

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[emb021]

clap clap clap

 

well said, johnponz

 

[BadenP]

john ponz

 

I find it so difficult to believe that you really think that the dribble in your last post has any validity whatsoever, because it does not even come close to the reality of what the OA is or stands for. You john and those of the same ilk are the true source of the problem in the OA today trying to shape the organization to your own misinformed and delusional vision. However I am willing to bet that you are not even active in your lodge, or if you are that the other adults keep you in line.

 

John one thing you do bring to this discussion is to validate my earlier post about adult scouters in the OA who are hellbent in bringing down the organization and maintaining total control of the lodge, not even giving the boys a chance to develop leadership and programming skills. That is truly the saddest outcome of all. Scouters like yourself should restrict yourselves to your own units if only to minimize the damage your kind of attitude causes in the BSA.

[jpstodwftexas]

I wonder if they ever were a member of OA..

 

All scouts should have cheerful service..OA are distinguished among our peers, elected by our peers.

 

Where can I get a Copy of the Rules and Regulations for Dress?

 

[johnponz]

BadenP

 

You are one of the most unscoutlike people I have run across on this forum. I could care less that you used to be a DE which you like to throw around a lot on these forums, and I do not care about your name dropping either (i.e., I used to work for the CSE). Your personal attacks are not necessary or appreciated. You can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. By the way what does the OA stand for if it does not stand for humble cheerful service done with your fellow Arrowmen?

 

If it matters, I am a district level Scouter that is well respected within the district. I am an Eagle Scout as well as a Vigil Honor member of the OA (1983-I would not have even brought this up but for BPowells disrespectful and unneeded posting). I am going to choose to ignore any further comment by him because obviously he chooses to ignore the Scout Law (friendly, courteous and kind).

 

Some choose to think that marketing and PR is more important than the ideals of the order. To paraphrase E. Urner Goodman, OA is a thing of the Spirit.

 

Just, follow the attached link from the official OA website. It will tell you when the wearing of the sash is appropriate. As I said this has not changed since at least the '80s. I cannot speak of before that.

 

http://www.oabsa.org/features/chairman/answer9.htm

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by johnponz)(This message has been edited by johnponz)