Giving Out Knots Arbitrarily

[Scoutfish]

So if I decide that speeding all the time, as well as running stop signs and red lights ...then is it okay?

 

If I had a really good time derinking and driving, can I just ignore the laws and call the arresting officer, the cort system judge and jury a bunch of "Law Nazis" because they are just being too serious in following the rules?

 

 

"Uniforms and awards exist for a reason - to achieve an objective"

 

Yeah, so do all the rules exist for a reason - to also achieve an objective....for the scouts benefit.

 

[BSA24]

johnponz,

 

You're really hard on yourself. That doesn't sound like fun. And I don't see what doing it that way will get me in the way of superior results.

 

[johnponz]

Actually I have lots of fun, and enjoy Scouting a lot. I do not go around telling other people that something on their uniform is incorrect, but I wear mine properly hoping that the good example will catch on. You can have fun without breaking the rules though. Hard on myself, maybe, but I like to challenge myself, and try to provide the best service that I can.

 

To each their own is really my motto. However, I will get the right answer to questions if I am asked and do have a matter of fact style when it comes to answering them. My fun really is oin ther journey. I like to slow down, go camping and enjoy life when I am Scouting and participating in my other hobbies.

[johnponz]

double post(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Adam S]

The Gong said

"My problem with giving out a thousand knots is that soon a scouter has a fleet of knots on his uniform, and then wood badge beads, and then a powder horn dangle. At that point I begin to question how involved they are with the youth and that is the point of the program. A kid doesnt care about all the patches and awards on your uniform, they care that you actually teach them a scout skill, or about life you that you enable them to teach a skill or learn a skill from another person. They want you to be there not to show off, because thats what you really do when you wear a fleet of knots and awards when they are not needed, you show off to kids."

 

I am not sure what the problem is with a Scouter earning many awards, it shows me they have been committed to being a quality leader for their son, I will agree the number of knots in the Cub Scout program is overwhelming, but otherwise, I think the program is decent. I certainly do not see how you miss the fact that the person who has done all this training is probably doing it to ensure their childs unit is a fun place to be, not much fun being in a venture crew that does not have leadership to take them on exciting trips...

 

Kids probably don't care about most adult uniforms, you're right. BUt some do, I also wonder how many would have if they had better scouters involved in their units. Ones who stepped up, treated their questions with due consideration and each scout as an individual worthy of their attention and capable of earning their respect. Boys that come from units like these seem very interested in the accomplishments of others, just my personal observation, so maybe I am wrong.

 

And of course, nobody likes a show off. But displaying what you have earned is not showing off. I think your problem is your going on the assumption that you can either be a contact leader or a "knot" leader, it has been my expereince that they are typically one in the same...

 

But worst case, let's say it is someone who's child has aged out. They are probably working on the committee level or above, working hard to keep a program they love afloat, over the years faces the yhave known disappear, people who understood the contribution they made first hand leave the program, is it so bad that they identify their accomplishments? They may not be direct contact leaders but they ar still contributing to the Scouting experience. We have allot of older guys in my District, I am glad for it! So many of my contemporaries had no experience with scouting until their son joined, many of them have very little outdoor experience as well. The old men with the wall of knots still know how to whip ropes, tie knots, mend uniforms and out out fires, and no they don't teach those skills to the boys, they teach them to the new scouters, they run the camporee's so the new leaders can stay with their troops and not be pulled away.

 

Lots of jobs in scouting, glad those old timers with all that training and experience are around to help. You see, when I was a Scout I was taught to reespect my elders and to treat everyone with respect. Worst case I made an old person who needed some self esteem feel better, best case, I just learned a skill that my scoutmaster may not have ever known...

 

[TheGong]

I completely agree that we need the old timers with a lot of experince, but most of them are not direct contact leaders but they do the trainings for the direct contact leaders which is very needed.

My crew advisor is one of the "knot" leaders and a direct contact leader which is rare from what I've seen. He is more than qualified as an adult leader and we love him dearly as our adult advisor, but Venturing is a youth led unit just as most troops should be as well. With a youth led unit the adult responsibility goes down in the day to day stuff.

I am all for recognizing our leaders but I think a gift or a great memory from a unit is much more powerful than a self nominated knot.

I think I may have spoken to generally before in implying that a "knot" leader is not a leader, but this generalization is wrong because it is the actual leaders ability that makes them a leader and not what they wear.

That being said, I still do not like a lot of attachments on the uniform. I do happen to wear knots, but only the AOL and Eagle. I dont wear silver loops, or brag about my awards, my resume is my work with scouts and that's all that matters to me.

[SeattlePioneer]

I had all the knot applications for Pack leadership positions at our Cub Scout Roundtable a week ago. I spread them out and explained them and encouraged people to take applications for positions they occupied and also for other adult leaders in thweir packs who might be interested.

 

Quite a few were picked up.

 

I was just like a Honey Bee, except I was giving out pollen instead of collecting it.

[Basementdweller]

Da old timers.....

 

I have met two schools of old timers.....

 

1. the old boys who is as Adam describes the helpful old group of scouters......There are not enough of these folks around. These guys are in their 60's or so typically. These boys are beyond beds and knots....most quietly arrive at roundtable or training class, avoid the spotlight and love sharing their knowledge.... Never enough of these guys around.

 

2. Then there is the Good Old Boys club.....These are the gentlemen who are typically in their late 40's or 50's.....Ego's and attitudes.....No idea is correct or right unless the collective came up with it. No new blood on the committees.....Create rules, block prevent obstruct new folks or progress.

 

Me I like #1 better, Over my career I have met.....maybe 10 of these folks. Felt enriched and truly enjoyed their company..... I have also attended a couple of their funerals...

 

 

[desertrat77]

Basement, your post struck a cord....

 

As a scout and scouter, I too have benefited from the fellowship and wisdom of the men in group 1. Indeed, it is tough to attend a funeral for one of them. And you are right, they are far and few between.

 

I think back to my scouting days, and what I would give for the opportunity to sit down again and have a cup of coffee with the leaders who came up in scouting early days.

 

You are spot on about group 2--they consider their corner of the BSA is their private club.

 

Group 2 isn't worthy to even carry Group 1's yucca pack.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)